ardduino.org

So I noticed that Arduino.org just released some new boards. What i feared would happen might have just happened. The true arduino company is truely loosing its fight to keep its name. Im sorry but the .cc guys are getting destroyed. While you guys are sitting on hand it seems they are winning the battle in ever respect but most importantly IOT. all they need to do now is make a better ide and its all over. my suggestion is to find a new name.

newsogn:
While you guys are sitting on hand

To whom is that addressed?

None of the people who contribute to this Forum has any involvement in the management of either Arduino faction and the people who are involved refuse to take part in the Forum in spite of many requests to do so.

Speaking personally I don't think there is any clear "right side" in this dispute. But it is certainly a completely pointless argument that will do nothing to help the future of any brand of Arduino. The only people who will win are the lawyers.

...R

As Robin2 says, most members are neutral. There is a tendency towards .cc. However, we make no difference in how we assist other members. We even help clone users!

Weedpharma

I think its quite disrespectful to say that the people who run Arduino (CC) do not take part, or do not care. Hell, the only reason we are here talking about this is because of those people.

And, of course there is a 'right' side. A lot of people are taking this forum for granted, as if its owed to them. Well guess what, maintaining a forum this size is very expensive and time consuming. If Arduino.cc collapses then this forum disappears.

Just because they do not respond to your personal requests does not mean they are not here. I see a few admins online regularly. Also a large number of Arduino staff are Italian, so if you really want their attention use google translate and post in the section they use. Or use the GitHub page labelled "forum issues"...

And to sum up the Arduino v Arduino dispute (going off topic): If you designed something and asked me to make it, then I turn around and say its my original creation simply because I purchased machinery and manufactured the first item. Then I trademark your logo and name claiming its mine because it was on "my" product first... I'm sure you'd consider me a bit of a dick.

And there is a lot of support for Ardunio.cc over Arduino.org, take the 250 developers here for instance: https://github.com/arduino-org/Arduino/issues/2

pYro_65:
If Arduino.cc collapses then this forum disappears.

I don't accept that. First of all, the Forum was started before the split arose so I don't feel that either side in the split "owns" the Forum in a moral sense. Second, the Forum will be valuable for whoever wins the dispute.

IMHO the real threat to the Forum (and the Arduino brand) is that both sides bankrupt themselves rather than reach a sensible agreement.

Now might be a good opportunity for another entrepreneur to start a rival product aimed at the same market. And s/he would have a great head-start because all the Arduino code (including the IDE) is Open-Source and the "owners" of the Arduino brand are not watching the market.

And to sum up the Arduino v Arduino dispute (going off topic): If you designed something and asked me to make it, then I turn around and say its my original creation simply because I purchased machinery and manufactured the first item. Then I trademark your logo and name claiming its mine because it was on "my" product first... I'm sure you'd consider me a bit of a dick.

I'm quite sure I would not like that, and I would not like you if you did that. But before taking you to court I should study the law which has nothing to do with my personal feelings.

The proper thing would be to have had a formal agreement (a pre-nup) at the outset. If I did not have the good sense to make such an agreement I should have the sense now to live with the consequences.

If I can be permitted a little rant ...
Almost all business disputes are settled by one side paying the other side some money.

It makes a great deal more sense to get that over with sooner rather than later. Later there will be much less money available because the lawyers will have taken most of it.

...R

Robin2:
I don't accept that. First of all, the Forum was started before the split arose so I don't feel that either side in the split "owns" the Forum in a moral sense. Second, the Forum will be valuable for whoever wins the dispute.

Its not a matter of what we believe or feel is right, if Arduino LLC runs out of money, and can't pay the upkeep for their servers/connection, then yes it will go (they own this website). And it has nothing to do with arduino.org.

If you check out their website (.org), they have their own forum and information. They might mooch what they can, but they'll keep everything on their website. If .org wins, the only way to keep this going is if Banzi & co are willing to hand over the keys to the last 11 years of their hard work. Even then if .org take ownership of .cc, they will simply copy their own stuff over. They'll want us to use their own forum.

If everything does go sour, hopefully the owners can afford to keep the site up. Ads will be able to help with this. In fact I think they should have ads now. One on the bottom of each page will generate a nice income. Then they wouldn't have to beg for donations when people download the IDE.

But as this is a trademark battle, we can kiss this site goodbye. Under ICANN policy/laws if a site is not a parody site, and uses a registered trademark in its name, the domain can be acquired by the trademark owner.

As much as we'd hate it, there is a very good chance our daily hangout will disappear.

pYro_65:
Its not a matter of what we believe or feel is right, if Arduino LLC runs out of money, and can’t pay the upkeep for their servers/connection, then yes it will go (they own this website). And it has nothing to do with arduino.org.

This assumes that the rift will not be healed by the outcome of legal proceedings. I am optimistic that it will be and that both sides will come together for the good of the brand - perhaps by one side buying out the other.

As much as we’d hate it, there is a very good chance our daily hangout will disappear.

I agree with this.

…R

As much as we'd hate it, there is a very good chance our daily hangout will disappear.

Along with all of the the "mean and unhelpful" members that have been upsetting a few delicate newbies!

Weedpharma

pYro_65:
… Under ICANN policy/laws if a site is not a parody site, and uses a registered trademark in its name, the domain can be acquired by the trademark owner.

As much as we’d hate it, there is a very good chance our daily hangout will disappear.

I thought this was a parody site!

For your information it exist many sites with arduino as name.

Creation date Country Name Owner
** 2003/11/02** Italy arduino.net ** Arduino Puglielli **
2004/08/29 USA arduino.com Gregg OSTRICK
** 2005/10/26** ** USA ?** ** arduino.cc** ** Hidden (Banzi ?)**
2008/10/25 USA arduino.info Raymond King
2010/01/17 Italy arduino.org Federico Musso
2011/10/18 USA arduino.us Brad Grisson
2016/02/23 India arduino.biz Anshul Goyal

Considering all these sites and :

  • the first was created three years before the fork of Wiring by arduino
  • this created by M Banzi was the third,
  • the only one where owner name is hidden is arduino.cc

I have very, very great difficulties to designate which respects moral and which does not respect.

Retail fun you have not still seen : arduino.org is for sale for more than 6 months. :grin:

Informations : "whois" by Debian.

What @68tjs has said reinforces my own view that there is no simple "right" and "wrong" to this dispute.

I just wish the protagonists would settle it. Somehow.

...R

When the website started has little to do with anything...

Massimo used his Arduino to teach students before it became a viable commercial venture. And the prototypes were being used (hand soldered) long before Smart Projects took it upon themselves to lash out and acquire a production run.


On a side note, the name is hidden because they do not want spam. This has nothing to do with being "moral"... c'mon...

If you pay your registrar a small amount of money ($10-$15) they will make your domain private, using their details instead of your personal information.

The whois databases require a human contact so you have your own email available for the worlds spam bots to eat up. Making it private simply adds a middle man (registrar) which protects your personal info.

pYro_65:
When the website started has little to do with anything...

I agree, but if you read well, I answered to those who wrote it did not have the right to use the name Arduino to another site.
To show them that this is wrong I gave the proof that the site arduino.cc is not the first, there were two others before.

pYro_65:
Massimo used his Arduino to teach students before it became a viable commercial venture. And the prototypes were being used (hand soldered) long before Smart Projects took it upon themselves to lash out and acquire a production run.

I understand that you defended Massimo but please do not distort the truth.

  1. It's Hernando Baragan who had the idea of Wiring that Massimo has forked when Yvrea Institut was closed (Will he be jobless ?).
    Wiring was published in 2004 from Bogota (Colombia) and Arduino was created in 2005.
  2. The first board has been created by Baragan in 2004 and Banzi use Wiring board in Ivrea, previously I read that Ivrea use PICs.
  3. For Arduino, Banzi changed the micro-controller for a cheaper. Also an avr Atmel because Wiring functions was compatible.
  4. If the project could exist is also because Martino, industrial, risked his own money. Banzi never risked a cent in manufacturing boards.

There is a huge difference between who is behind the idea (that is H Baragan), who copied the idea and the dispute between the copiers.
On this subject, no one but Banzi and Martino / Musso can say what happened exactly, absolutely no one.

Add value of M Banzi :
He detected the quality of the project of his student and with his great charisma he has managed the promotion worldwide.
I am sure that without Banzi Wiring project would have been less successful.

It also allowed the creation of a community with the arduino.cc site.
This site cost him money but make him earn money indirectly with all libraries provided free by volunteers.

There are also maintenance of IDE. But again we must not distort the truth.
The IDE is the work of the processing authors. The concept of setup () and loop () comes from processing.
First version of IDE was adapted from processing by H Baragan for wiring.

Another point the concept of board Manager has been proposed, here on this website, by Majenko several years before it is introduced into the Arduino IDE.

The work of M Banzi is very important in the success of this project but do not give him everything that was done.

And do not meddle in disputes between individuals, it does not concern us.

Rather worry about the arrival of major micro-controller manufacturer in the "Arduino (s) world":

  • Intel and Arduino LLC
  • ST Micro and Arduino SRL
    These huge industrials are predators and seek new opportunities in the Internet of Things, especially Intel.
    Example of predator : You can use the Arduino IDE to program Galileo but Intel also provided its own IDE based on Eclipse.
    Is Galileo yet an Arduino LLC board ?
    What new board is really an Arduino LLC board ?

The new boards (LLC and SRL) costs between 50 € / $ and 100 € / $, who can buy it ? Not me.
What is the price of a Zero ? A Nucleo board most powerful cost arround 20/25 €/$, a simple STM32F103 board 72 MHz, Cortex M3 costs 3 € / $ on Ebay. You can program it either with work of Roger Clark (Stmduino) or with MBed project.

Is it not a problem ?
Ok on Ebay you do not pay taxes, but that does not explain everything.

68tjs:
I agree, but if you read well, I answered to those who wrote it did not have the right to use the name Arduino to another site.
To show them that this is wrong I gave the proof that the site arduino.cc is not the first, there were two others before.

I can read quite well, thank you very much. And you are probably attempting to retort a comment which I myself made.

Unfortunately the ICANN rules, are set in stone. The trademark owner of the name Arduino can acquire the rights to any Arduino TLD. Just because there are sites already using the name does not detract from this fact.

68tjs:
I understand that you defended Massimo but please do not distort the truth.
...
...

Again, the software fork of Wiring is open source so it is not relevant to the discussion either. This also applies to the Arduino API and IDE.

There are also maintenance of IDE. But again we must not distort the truth.
The IDE is the work of the processing authors. The concept of setup () and loop () comes from processing.
First version of IDE was adapted from processing by H Baragan for wiring.

The IDE is so far beyond the original wiring IDE, all that can be really claimed is that the foundation is based on it. You are forgetting the hundreds of people like myself who have spent a lot of time and effort improving the Arduino IDE, not the Wiring IDE. Majenko is just one person who has given to the project, don't forget that. I for one have had many patches and a library added, I do not expect anything in return. This is the whole concept of open source.

The dispute is between the name Arduino and the rights to put it on particular hardware. The fact that there were different boards around, and others had created things that are used within Arduino are of little significance. Yeah, maybe Arduino should have accredited them a bit better, I feel this would be appropriate.

And to claim that Arduino would not be viable without Martino is rubbish. There are many other avenues that could have been taken to gain what Martino provided. They just simply took the first option which looked promising, and now its stabbing them in the back.

I would answer onlyto this, the rest is unimportant.:

I can read quite well, thank you very much. And you are probably attempting to retort a comment which I myself made.

Sorry but I am a frank and direct person, who does not use the politically correct so dear to the Anglo-Saxon civilization and without a second thought : I said what I think.

When someone lends me of "ulterior motives" I tell myself that this person thinks I act like her.
Sorry this is not the case I say what I think and I believe what I said.

Have a nice day.

On this subject, no one but Banzi and Martino / Musso can say what happened exactly, absolutely no one.

Not even them, I suspect.

I assume there is a lot of merit in the comments by both @68tjs and @pYro_65, however I am most impressed by

I for one have had many patches and a library added, I do not expect anything in return. This is the whole concept of open source.

If Banzi and the others took the same view there would be no dispute. It seems to me they want jam on both sides of their bread - an OpenSource project that makes them rich.

...R

68tjs:
I would answer onlyto this, the rest is unimportant.:
Sorry but I am a frank and direct person, who does not use the politically correct so dear to the Anglo-Saxon civilization and without a second thought : I said what I think.

When someone lends me of "ulterior motives" I tell myself that this person thinks I act like her.
Sorry this is not the case I say what I think and I believe what I said.

Have a nice day.

lol, aren't we all saying what we believe.

If you read well, you'd notice that I was confirming that the post you had mentioned I missed was one I actually made. And, asserting my ability to read is not an assumption of your ulterior motives.

Your lack or support for PC language is of little concern.