Arduino Due Obsolete?

when Broadcom refuses to sell the chips to distributors or any "small" companies?

And doesn't provide complete documentation, either. And if you think you want to write bare metal code for a multi-core chip, that probably just means that you don't know much about the topic. You should pay more attention to the Intel Galileo and Edison and their genral lack of followers...

I tried the Galileo but the company does not support Win XP to install drivers (opposite to the Arduino IDE). Both have also far too few pins as they both have the Uno layout, so both can't be a candidate for a DUE succesor (perhaps, partially, just for a Zero).

And of course I am no low-level MCU programmer, but "bare metal" is also a subforum in the Raspberry.org forums (CMIIW).

westfw: You should pay more attention to the Intel Galileo and Edison and their genral lack of followers...

Indeed, it seems Intel drastically underestimated or misunderstood what Arduino compatibility really means.

I thought they were finally starting to do better with Arduino 101 / Curie, but recent activity and comments on github issues aren't very encouraging.

ArthurD: I tried the Galileo but the company does not support Win XP to install drivers (opposite to the Arduino IDE).

I'm pretty sure the only reason Arduino's products install drivers and work with XP is because they're based on mature designs created many years ago.

Pretty much nobody bothers to test and support new products on XP. Why would they? XP is now under 10% of the market, and it's the 10% of the global population without budgets to buy new products.

Given the horrid state/bloat of Windows XP after many years of regular usage, and likelihood of malware especially with severe bugs still impacting all Windows versions being widely exploited and no patches on XP anymore, when you factor in the costs of tech support, simply disallowing any install on XP is probably a good business decision. So much trouble which costs real money, for so few users, with such a tiny percentage of those few willing to spend their money on new products.

XP is another issue - but having to buy new software and new hardware additionally when changing to Win 7, 8, 8.1, or 10 is an expensive enjoyment.

OTOH, the far too few GPIO pins of a Galileo compared to the Due and the all-over horrible manufacturer's support are finally the knock-out arguments.

Ok, so far for your requirements.... {counting on fingers} nothing short of the very fastest quad core ARM chip will do, you have to have tons of I/O pins, and advanced peripherals, a huge collection of shields covering all applications needs to be available, and top-notch support must be provided from the vendor, and they need to fully support running on Windows XP.

Oh, and price-wise, you're used to buying cheap Chinese clones of Due, right?

Did I miss anything?

advanced peripherals : Did I miss anything?

Yeah: "The advanced peripherals should be as straightforward and easy to use as digitalWrite() and similar Arduino functions, because running a real OS like linux is much too complicated."

if I need a Linux mini PC (quadcore, 1GHz, 1GB RAM), HDMI, full HD, 4x USB, LAN. WLAN, Bluetooth, audio plug, 32 real GPIOS (without VC / GND):

then I can take the Raspi 2 or 3 (30-40 EUR).

If it's on-board programmable with it's own HDMI screen and a wireless keyboard and mouse, then a XP crosscompiler of course is not needed (I'm also programming my Raspis on-board, no ssh, no Wifi, no crosscompiler, no PC, and so no Windows, and certainly not XP). In that case for programming just a onboard-Arduino-IDE would be needed, nothing for Windows at all. (For mobile usage I unplug the 24" full HD screen and plug a 5", 7", or a 10" HDMI screen instead).

If I should purchase an Arduino instead with the same features and the same computational power, it must be easier to use of course, no hassle with Linux, and also not extremely more expensive then .

Why should I buy a quadcore Arduino based on Linux, if it's not programmable by the simple Arduino IDE? Thats finally what it's all about all Arduinos: 1 simple IDE and API fits all.

The point you're not getting is the unrealistic nature of this fantasy. Might as well wish for a pony too.

Haven't you got any better idea in response than debasing my statement as a "unrealistic fantasy" and then that worn-out rubbish about the pony?

tell me: why should one buy an Arduino if it was far more expensive but after all not better and not more user-friendly than a Raspberry Pi 2 or 3 (and perhaps then also Linux-driven) and does not even provide the common Arduino IDE for all it's features?

For minor requirements of course the current DUE would fit finally, but unfortunately it has been dropped by Arduino.cc from the product list (like the Nano, BTW).

There's so the TI ARM Launchpads Up to 1M flash, ~80 IOs, and ethernet. Cheap, too, probably at the expense of "it's a loss-leader evaluation product and might change or disappear at TI's whim." May require the use of Energia instead of Arduino IDE (they're about the same.)

The TI ARM Launchpads are more like the Due (cpu clock 48-200 MHz), less comparable to the Pi 3 (1GB RAM, 64bit cpu, quadcore, 1 GHz clock, HDMI, audio, BT, WiFi, 4x USB host for any kind of USB devices), aren't they? Anyway, many Arduino libs are supposed not to work then with the TI boards any longer like e.g., Scheduler, DueTimer, SPI driver feat. graphic libs for Touch Displays plus SD libs, also Arduino shields woudn't fit then any more?

But one wouldn't need a substitute to the still existing Due with a similar preformance, which is just unfortunately highly neglected by Arduino.cc as already has been stated.

Instead it would be better to have more and better libs for the Due (pre-emptive multitasking, better working PID control algorithm with far simpler auto-tuning, USB host providing p'n'p for HID devices, full stdio.h and possibly conio.h compatible functions like getchar, gets, scanf, kbdhit a.s.o.)

You want nothing less than 1 GHz quad core hardware and you want much better libs than exist anywhere and you want cheap prices, but this isn't an unrealistic fantasy?

it may cost even a few EUR more than those 40 EUR for a Pi3, which eventually is a 1GHz quadcore, perhaps also 10 or 20 EUR more, but then powered by the Arduino IDE, why is that a unrealistic fantasy?

ArthurD: why is that a unrealistic fantasy?

Broadcom won't sell the chip to Arduino, or to me, or anyone else who would make & sell this product.

Complete enough technical documentation isn't published, so even if Arduino could buy the chip, many things wouldn't be possible without Broadcom's engineers for support.

Even with hardware and complete docs, the Arduino market isn't large enough to fund the software development to even a fraction of what you want. Arduino Due sold for 3+ years at much higher profit margin than you're proposing. Arduino.cc did pour quite a lot of man-hours into software development, and the community did contribute to the effort, and Due did improve. But even that fell far short of your desires. Due used much simpler hardware. Due's software scope was much smaller.

To believe Arduino could accomplish dramatically more complex software, with a level of completeness & simplicity & quality never before achieved, with less funding than prior efforts due to very low prices, on vastly more complex/difficult hardware that isn't fully documented, using chips they can't even obtain from the silicon vendors... is, well, pretty unrealistic.

Probably it’s not so unrealistic from my side, perhaps a lack of fantasy on Arduino’s side or perhaps especially yours?

There once was an alliance with BeagleBone and TI, IIRC , i.e. the TRE, powered by a ARM Cortex-A8 and a TI OMAP3530-SoC. That might have been a promising step (admittedly not feat. a quadcode though).

But the Pi is free available, so why don’t buy thousands of Pi2s or Pi3s on the market and implement the Arduino IDE on it, perhaps even a web IDE and then sell it as a Arduino Pi?

The world-wide tremendous success of Arduino was not just based on the boards, but above all on the IDE. I am sure (and I’d bet my left leg for that):
Having that Arduino IDE for a quadcore will blow up the microcomputer market. All what is missing currently on Arduino’s side is the courage, the vision and the fantasy and imagination, in my opinion.

ps,
no idea if you might find that interesting, I just came upon that topic:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=134928

so why [who?] don't buy thousands of Pi2s or Pi3s on the market and implement the Arduino IDE on it

Don't forget to ask for a lower-power Pi3...

There's a phrase that Open Software People use when they reach a particular level of frustration with people requesting a (perceived as unreasonable) level of feature additions. "Feel free!" - which is to say, the current stuff is all open source, so you have access to all the same information and existing code that they do, and you should go ahead and do it yourself...

have you heard of Window 10 IoT ? Perhaps it's a solution for your dislike of linux...

has it got a Arduino IDE? Which board by which µC ?

But as I already stated: even the TRE had been a good start, even if powered by Linux and only single-core. Note: a start.

And finally, again: I am an end-user, a hobby programmer with limited beginner skills (which is actually the target group for Arduino users) - I'm not a maker or a hacker or a developer. I f I had the skills of a developer or a hacker or maker then I wouldn't need or use the Arduino IDE at all. I use the Arduino IDE and those boards, I don't feel like having to develop it, and I'm also absolutely not even able to do it. I buy it when it's ready to use.

And that was also the reason why Wiring and the Arduino IDE had been created (quote by Hernando Barragán):

The objective of the thesis was to [u]make it easy for artists and designers to work with electronics, by abstracting away the often complicated details of electronics so they can focus on their own objectives[/u].

These were the key resulting elements of Wiring:

Simple integrated development environment (IDE), based on the Processing.org IDE running on Microsoft Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux to create software programs or “sketches”1, with a simple editor ** Simple “language” or programming “framework” for microcontrollers** ** Complete toolchain integration (transparent to user)** ** Bootloader for easy uploading of programs** ** Serial monitor to inspect and send data from/to the microcontroller** ** Open source software** ** Open source hardware designs based on an Atmel microcontroller** ** Comprehensive online reference for the commands and libraries, examples, tutorials, forum and a showcase of projects done using Wiring**

And still there are also so many roadworks even for the Due...

In the beginning of this thread I did some postings: https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=397480.0

I am really excited of Arduino Due and cannot understand why to consider any other Arduino model both feature wise and more importantly performance wise.

Not being sold by arduino.cc is no problem because of the many vendors that sell Arduino Due for 12$ with free shipping from China over aliexpress.com.

Yes, there are some problems with Due libraries, but I did not hit so much and I did quite some stuff on Due already.

I did experience that bitlash (http://bitlash.net/) has some problems on the Due (only on the Due). And the main developer stopped development and bug fixing 4 years ago. As westf said I have two options, work around which I was able to do sofar, or fix myself.

If I read your postings sofar it seems that Arduino Due is no option for you, and you want some >1GHz processor. And you want to have Arduino IDE for it. You will need to post somewhere else (raspberry forum?) because I think it is unlikely that Arduino people will provide Arduino IDE for raspberry. And your chances on raspberry forum may be limited as well since raspberry people don't think in Arduino terms and are happy with linux based OSes for raspberry (I did order a Raspberry Pi Zero yesterday for 4£ just to have a look on "the other side" myself).

So you will not like to hear that, but you might need to do Arduino IDE on raspberry yourself.

Hermann.

well, we're actually talking about 2 or 3 different things: 1.) a) the Due which has vanished from the Arduino.cc products site

b) the bad support of the Due by further development of Due-specific libs and general Arduino libs , designed for AVRs, which have issues running with the DUE and so had to be fixed

and 2.), which was caused by a post announcing a more powerful Teensy board and led to a discussion about requirements of future (and more powerful) boards as a successor to the DUE or the TRE which has also vanished.

My personal standpoint is:

1.) The Due should be better supported by Arduino.cc and libs should be developed and enhanced further on because it's a very good and quite powerful board (with minor drawbacks) for medium requirements, and it's a bad decision to drop it from the Arduino.cc products site.

2.) for future requirements, another medium power board is not urgently needed (e.g., a slightly more powerful Teensy), because we have the Zero (with very few GPIO pins) and the Due (with thankfully about 70 GPIO pins like the Mega) , but which is just very much neglected since already a couple of years, incomprehensibly

3.) If a really very powerful board is needed, then we'll have to raise the bar and compete on Raspberry Pi or Beaglebone Black/Blue or Pine64 instead, but also powered by the Arduino IDE then if it's meant to be a "Arduino board".