CrossRoads:
Take your Uno or Mega box, ...
I'm not complaining about the Uno or Mega box.
That is not in the OP.
What are you even talking about? It has nothing to do with my point.
Now, can somebody tell me why I shouldn't be getting sour when people jump in the thread and simply don't have a clue what the point is?
The packaging for the protoboard is clearly to prevent the pins extending from the bottom of the board from being bent or damaged and thus unable to mount onto another card.
CrossRoads:
The packaging for the protoboard is clearly to prevent the pins extending from the bottom of the board from being bent or damaged and thus unable to mount onto another card.
OK that's to the point, thanks for that.
However, I think it's too much paper even for that. I think a smaller stiff cardboard or plastic support for the pins would do as well. Plus, as I said, these boxes are mainly for promotion and in store display, the pins IMHO are in little danger from damage in that setting. And, as I think we both agree, shipment from the factory and to other warehouses is done in larger protective boxes.
But I do thank you much for understanding my original point.
I like the packaging strategy. I only need 1 original arduino of each kind, all others can be clones (to leave them inside something, or bare atmegas, so I don't really see the 'harm')
RadioShack finally has some nice Arduino stuff. I was so excited that I got a few new boards, as I was driving home I accidently spilled my Iced tea all over my seat and in one of the RadioShack bags. Thank God the paper packaging was able to hold off the tea long enough for me to pull over and save the boards from the sticky mess. I don't know what I would do if that paper packaging wasn't there to save my ass. Thanks Arduino 
eried:
I like the packaging strategy. I only need 1 original arduino of each kind, all others can be clones (to leave them inside something, or bare atmegas, so I don't really see the 'harm')
Sorry, but I have no idea at all what that statement has to do with my original point.
Jerz:
... as I was driving home I accidently spilled my Iced tea all over my seat and in one of the RadioShack bags. Thank God the paper packaging was able to hold off the tea long enough for me to pull over and save the boards from the sticky mess. I don't know what I would do if that paper packaging wasn't there to save my ass. Thanks Arduino
Paper packaging isn't there to shield electronics from spilled iced tea, that's not what paper is supposed to do. If it did deflect iced tea it was simply a coincidence. A sealed ESD bag would be good at that - but unfortunatly this company doesn't use ESD bags for these products.
The paper packaging for the prootoboard is overdone and I showed a picture of the Arduino Uno packaging to prove this is so. The more complex product, the "core" element" of the system, has the least paper packaging, not even a sealed ESD bag. Jerz, go spill your iced tea on the Arduino box and see how you fare.
So really, both your points are irrelevant to my original idea.
Dude, just take all this time and energy you obviously have on your hands and make something with the damn box. Shit....
I think someone needs a hug. 
You mean, if they would use the ESD bag also, the package would be just perfect?
C'moon, leave the guy alone, he has a point after all.
But all this should be scaled on the real world sized packaking with much too much plastic.
If you install, let's say new IBM PC, you have 3-4 plastic bags for few little parts that you probably won't even use, every piece of "manuals" are in their
own bag, and what are you going to do with them once you have them? Yeah, right to the trash bin.
Plastic is the real problem. But not with the electrical components, with little bag of silicon.
Cheers,
Kari
Jerz:
Dude, just take all this time and energy you obviously have on your hands and make something with the damn box. Shit....
I think someone needs a hug.
Translation: I have no rational insight to add so I'll chastise the OP. In the forum I operate this would be referred to as "dodging".
GaryP:
You mean, if they would use the ESD bag also, the package would be just perfect?
It would be better for the Arduino device. It's standard practice in the industry - to package electronics in ESD bags. Why does the Arduino team think they know better than the entire industry in this regard?
C'moon, leave the guy alone, he has a point after all.
Thanks
But all this should be scaled on the real world sized packaging with much too much plastic.
If you install, let's say new IBM PC, you have 3-4 plastic bags for few little parts that you probably won't even use, every piece of "manuals" are in their
own bag, and what are you going to do with them once you have them? Yeah, right to the trash bin.Plastic is the real problem. But not with the electrical components, with little bag of silicon.
Of course. The point is, for any packaging, to scale it back.
Look at the pic I attached. See the cardboard support? That comes in various types of boxes to support furniture during shipping. It's made of paper but it's very strong, almost as strong as wood. See the protoboard? If a smaller size of that support product were used, a few small pieces of that were used around the pins of the protoboard so they would be protected, you wouldn't need that big box and the paper volume would be smaller. You could use a smaller box like the Arduino comes in.
Think people think! Don't kill the messenger.
modeller:
It would be better for the Arduino device. It's standard practice in the industry - to package electronics in ESD bags. Why does the Arduino team think they know better than the entire industry in this regard?
My guess is, that since the device is aimed at the hobby market, they expect that the first thing the new owner will do is open it up and hold it in their hands. The ESD bag would just slow that process down slightly. In the absence of warnings about "only use at an ESD-safe workstation", which would go against the whole hobbyist approach, there isn't much point about worrying about ESD.
Hello Nick,
I a little shocked (no pun intended) that I'm even having this ESD packaging debate with some of the people here who are obviously highly skilled in electronics, so instead of quoting the sources I was going to quote, let's take the argument in your "hobbyist" direction.
Every single card I've ever bought for my computer hobby over the years, as far as I can remember, has been shipped in an ESD protective bag. I open it's box and it's sitting there in an ESD bag. Video cards, USB cards, Firewire cards, memory sticks, Wireless PCI cards, network adapters, and so on.
Why, if these computer items are meant for hobbyists, as your line of reasoning goes, were they then shipped in ESD bags? These manufacturers seem to agree with my logic - the industriy's logic and ESD standards.
How do you think are they different from the Arduino circuit board?
How do you think are they different from the Arduino circuit board?
Because they were designed to be used by artist and creative people and not dull stuffy engineers. 
Actually the arduino micros on board all have clamping protection diodes on their I/O pins to protect from all but the most dramatic of ESD sources. I worked in digital field service for decades starting in the late 60s before ESD packaging was even invented and never had a problem handling PCB without such protection. It wasn't until later with the use of early CMOS logic chips where ESD damage became a bigger issue. Later it became more standard for CMOS manufactures to install internal clamping diode protection on their device pins to help deal with ESD vulnerability. The use of wrist straps and conductive bags is mostly over kill for completed boards, but people will always fall back on 'think of the children' we must all use grounded wrist straps and such.
Lefty
retrolefty:
How do you think are they different from the Arduino circuit board?
Because they were designed to be used by artist and creative people and not dull stuffy engineers.
So ... they aren't different from the Arduino.
Actually the arduino micros on board all have clamping protection diodes on their I/O pins to protect from all but the most dramatic of ESD sources. I worked in digital field service for decades starting in the late 60s before ESD packaging was even invented and never had a problem handling PCB without such protection. It wasn't until later with the use of early CMOS logic chips where ESD damage became a bigger issue. Later it became more standard for CMOS manufactures to install internal clamping diode protection on their device pins to help deal with ESD vulnerability. The use of wrist straps and conductive bags is mostly over kill for completed boards, but people will always fall back on 'think of the children' we must all use grounded wrist straps and such.
So it is your avowed position that ESD protective bags are not required for shipment of completed electronic boards, and if I quote you expert sources that say you're mistaken, that you will just tell us that you are the trusted expert on this subject and that the experts in the industry that have devoted research and engineering to this issue are all wrong.
Do have that about right Lefty?
modeller:
retrolefty:
How do you think are they different from the Arduino circuit board?
Because they were designed to be used by artist and creative people and not dull stuffy engineers.
So ... they aren't different from the Arduino.
Actually the arduino micros on board all have clamping protection diodes on their I/O pins to protect from all but the most dramatic of ESD sources. I worked in digital field service for decades starting in the late 60s before ESD packaging was even invented and never had a problem handling PCB without such protection. It wasn't until later with the use of early CMOS logic chips where ESD damage became a bigger issue. Later it became more standard for CMOS manufactures to install internal clamping diode protection on their device pins to help deal with ESD vulnerability. The use of wrist straps and conductive bags is mostly over kill for completed boards, but people will always fall back on 'think of the children' we must all use grounded wrist straps and such.
So it is your avowed position that ESD protective bags are not required for shipment of completed electronic boards, and if I quote you expert sources that say you're mistaken, that you will just tell us that you are the trusted expert on this subject and that the experts in the industry that have devoted research and engineering to this issue are all wrong.
Do have that about right Lefty?
Yep, feel free to quote me.
Lefty
retrolefty:
Yep, feel free to quote me.
What I see in this thread is mainly an irrational and sometimes hostile resistance to any type of suggestions that the Arduino packaging, or shipment methods, are not the best. Either it's the guy who claims the boxes shed a certain type refreshing drink-on-the-go, or it's you and others who have a greater knowledge of ESD protection than experts who work in this specific field and design these protection methods, and who's expertise, if quoted, would not be acknowledged.
So the reaction is not one of logic, science, or rational thinking. This is more like a kind of cultish or dogmatic reaction, almost a type of religious mindset. Our religion (the Arduino) and it's pastors and Pope (the company owners) can't be doing anything wrong, otherwise our belief would be false, but we know it to be true, because that's what we believe.
All hail the cardboard box!
Interesting, very interesting.
You need to work on your Karma count.
Lefty
retrolefty:
You need to work on your Karma count.
On my forum we have both plus and minus karma, but it's been re-named "IQ".
As far as negative karma (which isn't available here) the way I look at it, the more negative I get, the more I know my points are getting through. I don't go for the "we all deserve medals and everyone's a winner" baloney.
I wear negative karma like a badge of honor Lefty.
modeller:
retrolefty:
You need to work on your Karma count.On my forum we have both plus and minus karma, but it's been re-named "IQ".
As far as negative karma (which isn't available here) the way I look at it, the more negative I get, the more I know my points are getting through. I don't go for the "we all deserve medals and everyone's a winner" baloney.
I wear negative karma like a badge of honor Lefty.
They included negative karma here also when they first enabled Karma on this site. But it became pretty silly quickly as among the longest thread going at the time was on the Karma topic and people would hand out negatives to their friends just to make them laugh, so after a month or so they just stopped all Karma and left it off for over a year I think, until recently re-enabling it sometime last year with just the positive.
Makes little difference to me as most people after a short time can tell who is here to be helpful and who here is just for their own ego.
Lefty
modeller:
So it is your avowed position that ESD protective bags are not required for shipment of completed electronic boards, and if I quote you expert sources that say you're mistaken, that you will just tell us that you are the trusted expert on this subject and that the experts in the industry that have devoted research and engineering to this issue are all wrong.Do have that about right Lefty?
I'd be interested in seeing the export sources who are trusted experts in the field of AVR microcontrollers shipped in paper boxes that have devoted research and engineering to the issue.
WizenedEE:
I'd be interested in seeing the export sources who are trusted experts in the field of AVR microcontrollers shipped in paper boxes that have devoted research and engineering to the issue.
Why are you interested in seeing it? Because you have some deep insight to contribute? Why not do so now?
You are trolling the topic. Unless you have some qualitative substance to add them I suggest you read along. Until then you are nothing more than another religious devotee quoting scripture.
