Automating a Progressive Reloading Press

Projects General Guidance
1

Hey all. One of my big hobbies is reloading my own ammunition, which I then get to go out into the desert, and gleefully shoot targets at 600+ meters. I recently acquired a progressive reloading press that lets me reload pistol cartridges for my 9mm pistol.

I rediscovered an Arduino sitting in my electronics drawers and started thinking... (Always a bad thing!)

What I plan on doing is automating the arm of the press with a servo. I was looking at using a NEMA 23 or 34 servo, but the ones strong enough to do this seem to require some pretty obscure power requirements, plus they are PRICEY!

So, looking for an appropriate servo. You might ask what happens when it starts dropping double gun powder charges, or none at all? I was thinking about using a PING range finder...calibrate it off to the bottom of a unloaded, and each stage measure after enough of a delay for the powder to drop, and see if the charge is within +/- 10%. If it is inside tolerance, it continues the cycle. (The last thing I want is to be in the desert, have a double charged round, blow a couple fingers off, and then have to drive myself to the hospital minus a few fingers.)

Also, if the servo is attempting to cycle, and it stays in a position other than one extreme or the other for more than X miliseconds, it would halt. This will prevent it from jamming on a half inserted case, and breaking my press with too much force. Ideally I will use a ping or optical sensor of some sort on each of the five stations to confirm there is a case there, and that the appropriate operation took place before cycling to the next station.

I do need to figure out the best way to sense if a primer is loading...because those go kaboom way too easy...and I would hate to have a tray full of them sympathetically detonate.

What am I missing here?

As far as controls, I would like to have a Start/Stop pushbutton, a single step pushbutton that cycles the servo manually, and a fault cleared button. I would like a readout with how many rounds have reloaded (In that session and lifetime), and a pot controlled readout to set the rate of rounds per hour (RPH) I am reloading.

2

Hey,

Welcome (or welcome back!)!

I don't know too much about guns although I discuss some parameters of some firearms in front of my students. What doesn't make sense to me is to use a ping sensor, which is an audio sensor (ultrasonic) to detect distances, when gun powder exploding creates loud noises near by. I may be wrong but I think an explosion contains sound waves of lots of frequencies so it may flood the ping sensor.

I might consider an optical sensor but again the vibration, smoke and dust may not work too well with them. If you have a moving part, which pushes bullets into the gun, maybe you can attach a magnet to the moving part and sense it with a hall effect switch and possibly use it to count bullets. Just my $0.02

3

Thanks for the warm welcome gentlemen,

Liudr,

I do not reload ammunition around where firearms are being discharged...having open containers of gun powder around open flame and sparks is not conducive to me keeping all my fingers and face intact. XD

KE7GKP,

Your right. More what I am attempting to do is to ensure that there is not powder in there, and the powder charges typically are foolproof, and I randomly select rounds to measure the powder charge in them now. Perhaps merely an opto sensor that would spot the powder falling into the case. I've never played with ultrasonic and this is why I am sounding board this idea on the forums. This is one of those projects where even the first mistake can be very painful.

Why wouldn't a servo be optimal? - I am moving the lever of the press fully down to a >180 degree point, and then returning it to it's start position.

4

Hmm...I see what your saying and that would be a whole lot cheaper.

The NEMA 34 motor I was looking at was about 200 dollars. Probably waaaaay overkill. (Industrial CNC servo)

5

Could you modify the powder measuring system? That would be the first way I'd think of doing it, preload a charge either based on weight, or in a transparent tube with optical sensors, then dump the pre-metered charge into the cartridge. That way you don't have to worry about dealing with the brass at all, you can make your own system as simple or complex as you need to. If the metered charge doesn't fill properly, or you detect powder still in the metering system after a cycle you can flag the round for inspection.

Is it reasonable to assume that each cartridge would be empty as it goes into the filling station? I would think that the process of replacing the primer would keep any already-filled cartridges from going thru, but I'm just guessing.

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KE7GKP: Yeah, I'd love to chop the total budget to 1/20th of that! haha. I have the switches...whatever type of display I go with might be interesting.

Extent: I dont particularly want to modify the powder drop system. It already measures +/- .1 grain per drop...I just worry about time when I interrupt a cycle, and accidentally setting things up so a double charge occours. But this can be overcome by weighing each completed cartridge and/or using a powder drop of a type of powder that a double charge would overflow the cartridge.

trying to prime a primed or old primed cartridge usually results in a kaboom, followed by 99 other kabooms as the primer tray full of primers detonates...I just want fail safes built in...but you are right, if it manages to make it through without a primer, it will be leaking powder.

7

KE7GKP:
You could probably get a nice DC gear-motor at a charity shop for $5. (aka. "electric drill")
I would use a pulley system with a large pulley on the press shaft, and a smaller one on the gear-motor (vs. trying to operate the shaft directly). And I would leave the belt a bit loose so the motor can't drive it past the normal limits. Of course, the limit switches would be the primary control factor, but always allow a margin for safety.

This is a great idea. Now how would I have it stop if it gets jammed up on a shell....and keep it from snapping itself into little pieces on the stroke?

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searchandrescue55:
Extent: I dont particularly want to modify the powder drop system. It already measures +/- .1 grain per drop...I just worry about time when I interrupt a cycle, and accidentally setting things up so a double charge occours. But this can be overcome by weighing each completed cartridge and/or using a powder drop of a type of powder that a double charge would overflow the cartridge.

So you mean that there is no chance of a cartridge with powder coming in to the powder filling station, but the worry is that if a cycle is stopped that the next cycle will run without advancing the cartridges to the next station? In that case I would look more to process control solutions, like watching the rotation of the filling station and disallowing the unit from cycling until the cartridges have advanced (whether there is an error condition or not, if a filling cycle has begun the system completely locks out until the table has been rotated to the next station)

You can account for the "first fill of the day" by requiring the powder fill station to be empty for the first cycle after a system start. You could also do something like locking out the system if any cartridge is removed from the reloader before it's gone through the full cycle, then requiring the operator to reload the system in a "safe" operating configuration and confirming the lockout before it will continue.

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What brand press is this? I only load shotshells, not metallic cartridges, but MEC has made progressive hydraulic-powered presses for some time. I wonder if the same approach would work. I use the model 9000G's which are the manual version of the hydraulic press. The hydraulic model is operated by a foot pedal, but I've never seen one in person, not sure if the pedal just operates a valve or is the valve. Like you said, the biggest worry I'd have would be a jam situation where something isn't sitting quite straight or whatever, and at that point you don't want to try and cycle the press all the way down. Same thing happens with shotshells, and sometimes you feel it before you see it.

Solving that problem with some sensors and a microcontroller sounds like a great idea. Worrying about double charges is a distant second in my mind, but again that's based on experience with shotshells and the MEC presses. If the force or torque being applied could be measured and a little intelligence applied via the microcontroller, that might do the trick nicely. Not sure what to think about the primers, those metallic primers are itsy-bitsy as compared to what I'm used to, I'm thinking that translates into more potential issues. Interesting idea though, let us know what you do!

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Looking at this motor to drive it. (109 RPM 24 Volt DC Mabuchi Gearmotor | DC Gearmotors | DC Gearmotors | Electric Motors | www.surpluscenter.com) Torque is probably more important than speed, though 30 rounds per minute certainly isn't slow, and probably still a tad bit fast to be able to monitor and QC the ammo.

Starting to get a pretty solid parts list together, Just need to go back and make sure I have enough I/O pins available for the 16x2 LCD, 10K single turn pot (control rounds per minute), red/green illuminated start/stop push button, manual cycle push button, RGB LED for status indicator, Motor, and two limit switches. Damn, that's a lot...hm. Without figuring the price of components to drive the motor, and power supplies and enclosures, or pulleys, belts or shafts, price is at $77.83.

I am using a Lee Load-Master Press with bullet feeder and all. I use one of lee's single stage reloading presses for my .308 bolt gun ammo. I'll be starting with 9mm on this press but will also be doing bulk 5.56mm and .40 eventually. I'll upload my CAD plans for my reloading bench when I am complete....a nice station that folds up against the wall and only takes up a couple of feet of space off the wall, while being plenty roomy when unfolded and working.

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Should be plenty fast - the idea is to be able to focus on QC....The fastest reloaders using this press by hand are only getting 100 rounds every six minutes and 30 seconds, or 1 round every 3.9 seconds. If I can cut that down to two seconds its almost twice as fast. If i get that running safely, then I will up the speed. I can also adjust the speed based on the pulley ratio between the motor and the operating lever of the press.

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I would be concerned about the torque as well, if you're looking for 2 seconds per cycle then figure you're going to have to completely pull the lever down with only 2 or 3 turns of the motor.

13

Got the circuit all laid out in Fritzing, but it seems to be sucking on the auto trace on the PCB - trying to use the shield shaped PCB, but it just is wanting to throw things all over. If i could place the LCD pin header above the top row of Arduino pins, all would be fine.

Breadboard View.png
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This sounds to me like a safety-critical system, i.e. if it goes wrong then someone could be badly hurt. As such, both the hardware and the software should be designed to very high standards, and a failure mode effects analysis performed to determine what could go wrong and how the system can be kept safe if it does. Safety-critical software development (which is my speciality) is VERY different from ordinary C/C++ software development.

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KE7GKP:
Re the Fritzing diagram:

  1. You really need SEPARATE indications from the cycle up and down limit switches. Connecting them in series cripples you significantly.
  2. You probably need several additional switches and sensors to make this reasonably safe.
  3. You cannot power your 24V gear-motor from the 5V output from Arduino. Or even from the 12V wall wart. You need a separate 24V source.

  1. My plan was to use the limit switches as the failsafe method of halting if things go awry - was going to time the up and down stroke as primary means of actuation, and if it actuates the limit switch, it would enter its error mode and stop everything, and either reset or continue as instructed by myself.

  2. Agreed, just haven't figured out the best way to check each station on the press. I have Analog Input (which will be configured as digital inputs) 1-5 still available. Worst case I can start setting a resistor array on the switches to expand that if required.

  3. Yeah, i just saw that too...I may go with a 12V drill motor and clutch as was previously recommended if I can find one to rip apart....or after I move into my new house, I can find an excuse to get a new drill, and then rip mine apart. ]:smiley:

Thanks for all the help guys, and keep it coming. This is a neat project.

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Hi Searchandrescue55
Just wondering how you got on with this project! I am thinking of going down the same path too and do with more information.
Thank you very much in advance.

17

Same here, looking at this too using a Lee Progressive 5 stations. Any help will be greatly welcome!

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I am also heavy into reloading both .40 S&W and .223. I have a Lee Loadmaster currently but plan to buy a Dillon which can have the low powder sensor so that it would beep if no powder was found or if it is a double charge.

I was also thinking about automating this as it would let me geek out with programming as well as enjoying my hobby. I am thinking about a similar setup to what you have, as I have shoulder issues pulling the lever a few thousand times in each sitting can get to it. I was thinking of having a button that once pressed would cycle the press once up then down then cycle the shell plate.

Have you ventured far into your setup yet? One thing I would suggest you get for checking powder charges is the RCBS Lockout die. This will not let the press proceed to the next station or do anything if there is too little or too much powder in the casing. I am currently using a Powder Cop but cannot stand it, it works don't get me wrong but I would prefer the Lockout myself.

I have no clue about servo's or how I would rig this to cycle the press so if you could point me to some reading about the type of motor/servo etc required for a project like this I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Joseph Crawford

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I've been thinking about automating and motorizing a Lee Precision load Master reloading press. This seems like a natural progression from DIY upgrades involving motorized case feeders and motorized bullet feeders for the loadmaster.

The cheap and dumb approach that I can see beginning experimentation with is purchasing a Harbor Freight Tools $16 cordless drill. This has variable speed and a clutch mechanism that can be set at how much torque it takes to release the clutch and could conceivably act to prevent damage to the reloader for some types of malfunction.

As a safety precaution, means of removing suspect rounds for inspection could be provided: a scale to reject rounds weighing too much or too little would be a good starting point.

DIY modifications to loadmaster presses are posted to video sharing sites like YouTube showing how users have resolved problems commonly encountered on Lee loadmasters.

I'm sure at some point they're going to come up with a DIY solution to automate and motorized a Lee loadmaster and post it, but for now we are essentially on our own and all we can do is safely experiment with trial and error and share results.

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what is this thread ? a 6 year old thread that gets a ping each year ?

please start your own thread.