Certifications/insurance/liability/etc

Other Hardware Product Design
1

As my skills have grown (they are not great, yet), the number of people asking me to do little projects for them has also grown.

I'm well aware of my own limitations (which are many), and have enough sense to be reasonably sure that I will not build something that is going to catch fire or electrocute somebody. So when a friend's project involves mains voltage, or chance of heat buildup, etc, I don't take on the project. I haven't yet done such a project for a friend, much less for pay, but as the requests are starting to grow it has me wondering about this subject.

Specifically, not the safety questions, which I feel able to research on my own, but the legal questions. Can anyone recommend resources on the subject for the US? I did a tiny bit of searching and was not able to come up with anything clear.

I assume that if someone asked me to build a control box that switched on and off mains circuits in their house, paid me money for it, and I installed it, and it burned their house down and killed people, that there would be two consequences:

1 - I would go to prison for a long time
2 - their insurance would laugh off any claims they submitted for the house burning down / medical problems / etc.

But what about the milder cases... e.g. I voluntarily (no $) help a friend automate their garden watering system (low-voltage electronics only) and it malfunctions and causes excess water to drain into a neighboring property, causing damage.

Would I be civilly liable for those damages? Is there any way to help a friend with a project like that without exposing yourself to civil liability? If the friend had applicable insurance, would it care about the DIY system? If so, how should the friend have prepared?

My instinct is that my friend would be responsible, not myself, but I'm obviously pretty unclear on it all.

Since UL listing is not accessible for a little project like that, and I'm not a certified electrician or a bonded professional, are there any other options, or am I just totally on my own when I DIY, and all guarantees and safeguards against civil/criminal/financial risk go out the window? Does any of this landscape change when you deal with low voltage only?

Another example: a non-profit organization needs a custom electronic widget made that involves mains voltage; they hire a company to build it for them; that company is presumably insured and so forth. But would the device they make be UL listed? Or is there some "custom-made high-voltage equipment" exception where they are allowed to build and deploy such devices because they are insured? If the space the non-profit rents burns down because of the equipment, does their insurance care that they had custom-made equipment from a professional shop, as long as deployment of that equipment was within reason and per the installation instructions?

I don't expect anyone to write an essay for me, here, but if you have any thoughts I'd welcome them, and any pointers for ways to research this general subject. The "maker" world doesn't seem to cover this often, but if I'm wrong about that, I'd love some links.

My immediate need is to know where any red lines are when it comes to friends/businesses/non-profits asking me to build things for them.

Thanks!

2

Conclude a sales contract in which everything, but really everything, is excluded and the entire responsibility is with the buyer.

3

When in doubt, consult with a lawyer who specializes in liability and personal injury cases. They can provide you with guidance based on the specific details of your situation and the laws in your jurisdiction… that’s probably the best advice…

4

It's probably not possible to do that: there are some types of liability that can't be disclaimed.

5

That's a pity, we'll have to call in a lawyer for contract law. :sunglasses:

6

Before you do anything, contact a lawyer and form a business corporation or LLC. Second thing is to contact an insurance agency that specializes in business insurance.

Once that is all done, then investigate the laboratories the do the actual testing for certification. They may even have web sites that explain the procedure. If you have nothing to do with your mains power connection/wiring, then you do not need UL certification.

7

A liability waiver covers "everything" even when the subject is known to be inherently dangerous (for example, tandem skydiving, or driving over speed bumps with a cup of 85c/180f coffee in your crotch). However; i also know a signature with a drop of blood can be overturned. That is why I will happily sign anything...

PMEL (Precision Measurement Equipment Laboratory) is the generic name for the test labs.

8

If I have an LLC and business insurance, but no particular certifications/bonding/etc., could I do projects that involve mains voltage if I had a lawyer draft up a tight contract with the client that disclaimed my liability?

Would a sane client with their own insurance concerns ever sign such a contract?

In other words, is there a path for custom mains voltage projects that doesn't involve UL listing, or is that just the cost of doing that kind of business? (I won't object if it is; just curious to understand this world a little better.)

9

No, there is not. It's even worse. There are at least two states that do not allow sale of even kits that connect to the mains. My state, Oregon, being one of them.

10

Thanks -- If you incorporated a third-party UL-listed mains power supply with no exposed high voltages, could you do such a project in general, or a kit version thereof?

(And what's the other state?)

11

I am not a lawyer and what I am about to share cannot be construed to be legal advice. I am simply an engineer who has had to deal with legal issues in the course of my career.

This post is far to broad to answer in short sentences. I can, however, give you a few snippets.

  1. If you are commissioned (paid or simply asked to do it) to build a custom system, the other person(s) involved share liability. You are not alone and can't be hung out to dry on your own.

  2. UL certification is not legally required. It's a nice have and not having it can add to the liability.

  3. How are you powering your projects? Are you building your own power supplies? I use off-the-shelf USB cubes and power supplies, which are UL certified. Due diligence done.

  4. If something goes wrong, too many people are prepared to simply sue (and usually sues everyone involved). What are the facts? From your example of making a custom automated garden watering system, your non-UL-certified power supply has nothing to do with incorrect drainage on someone else's property.

  5. If you get a letter that says (something like) "I'M GOING TO SUE YOU: PAY ME NOW!" Black mail happens, but usually goes away if the action is base less or frivolous. Reply with a respectable "I don't believe there is any basis to this. Unless you are proceeding to court, please do not contact me again." Nobody is suing you until a court is involved. After replying, any further demands without proper procedure can be deemed harassment (black mail or extortion if carried too far).

  6. If you are ever sued, don't just accept that you are liable. Demand disclosure. Demand that the suing party explain succinctly how you are involved and responsible. Don't let lawyers play their game of litigating you into bankruptcy. Every state has a limit to protect you from litigation abuse, so after passing that milestone (generally six months) you can simply ask that the matter be set down for trial.

  7. You are not liable if the end user abuses the system, uses it in a manner it wasn't intended for, or alters the system by installing parts you did not specify.

  8. Even if a friend asks you for a DIY solution, do not let them skimp on required components. This is especially true for power supplies. For example, you specify a power supply for worst case scenario, so you specify a 5V/5A power supply: for "friend" says "this thing only needs 2A and I can save $5. If you agree, you carry the liability: if he does it, walk away from it and let him carry the liability. Knowing there may be an issue, keep detailed notes of what you specified and what you provided.

12

That is exactly how the rest of the know world operates!

I think the other state is New Jersey.

13

Sorry, do you mean you can do what I described with listed PSUs in the rest of the US, but not in Oregon (/possibly-NJ)

Thanks @timinelmira for those perspectives!

14

That is the way 99% of the stuff is sold in the US. Even on Oregon. The DIRECT attachment is where the problem lies.