Ok folks, did you ever think gee I should have tried that the first time it was suggested. turns out that's what I should have done. I used a breadboard and a 470 ohm resistor along with a standard led and it works on 10 and 13. I also tried it with my 12v leds. and low and behold they work just as expected. Pass the crow pleas i deserve a large helping. also where is my dunce cap I have the chair for the corner.