Cheap clones/fakes have got too tempting

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Three years ago, when I first started looking into Arduinos, I would never have looked at the clones. This was mostly because I knew that I couldn't tell a good clone from a bad clone. This meant that I only had a couple of Arduinos (an Uno and a Mega) due to cost. Eventually I tried out a Tosduino Uno clone, was happy, and bought a few more. Now I'm finding more and more projects are within my capability and I'm putting projects together that I want to leave in the field. The result is my Arduino fleet is mostly deployed. So I started looking at the even cheaper clones.

While shopping for components on EBay, I noticed some Pro Mini compatibles for a bit more than $2 each. Stunned, I bought a couple, as well as an UART TTL module, and waited for three weeks for them to arrive. My expectations were low. To my surprise, everything worked fine. It took a bit of head-scratching to figure out how to use the UART TTL module, but this was only because I expected the pins on it to map directly to the pins on the end of the Pro Mini clone, which they don't. I've since ordered a bunch more of the Pro Mini clones.

The Pro Minis are certainly clones and probably fakes of clones. The silk-screening looks pretty shoddy. My suspicion that they are abusing a trademark (but not Arduino's trademark, Deek-Robot's). However, they work just fine, at least as far as I've been able to exercise them.

At just over $2, I'll be putting these everywhere. Forget Nest thermostats, I'm building my own. And my boys will be getting all kinds of Arduino hacked toys. Heck, I'll have no issues sending them up on my RC plane and quadcopters as they are probably less expensive than any of the other components.

The same goes for a lot of the sensors and other components I use. They are available on EBay for peanuts. So I end up getting something in the mail every few days. I've had to explain to our mail-lady that I'm now a full-time mad scientist.

The only issue is that I don't feel like I'm supporting the folk that got me into this stuff in the first place: Adafruit, Sparkfun, and the Arduino crew. Today, I found myself looking for a way to donate in some way to Arduino and decided to order some Arduino t-shirts, but it doesn't seem like enough.

Then again, after reading Cory Doctorow's Makers, I'm not sure that this is a bad thing. I mean, a low barrier to entry for these kinds of devices and the software used to work with them is a huge benefit. As an example: It is sure going to make it easy to put together a robotics class for our local library.

Anyways, I just thought I would share my...half-guilt half-delight.

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if you look at how many people on here work up a prototype, then have a board made and put on the exact same chips as an official Arduino, it will become clear that there is no magic. all you need to do is to make sure you follow the schematics.

we make fun of the Chinese but one of the fundamental laws of the universe is that you do more of what works and less of what does not work. They totally get that and they make better stuff with each change.

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Aside from the ethics, I do believe the fact is that the Atmel chips in the "real" Arduinox, as well as essentially all the support components, are made in China.

Are they really going to set up a lot of secondary fab facilities just to make second-rate clones? Why not just use the same factories; the same masks; the same runs?

Nothing if not practical, those Chinese!

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You can always share your your expertise and help new people here at the forum.

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I do believe the fact is that the Atmel chips in the "real" Arduinox, as well as essentially all the support components, are made in China.

Based on what? But mostly the microprocessor part.
Per Wikipedia:

Atmel’s corporate headquarters is in San Jose California. Other locations include Trondheim, Norway, Colorado Springs, Colorado, Chennai, India, Shanghai, China, Taipei, Taiwan, Rousset, Nantes, France, Patras, Greece, Heilbronn, Germany, Whiteley, UK and Munich, Germany. Atmel makes much of its product line at vendor fabrication facilities. It owns a facility in Colorado Springs, Colorado that manufactures its XSense line of flexible touch sensors.

I just bought 100 328Ps from Mouser, I'll check to see if there's any country of origin documented.

Per Atmel:

Product Traceability

Atmel ensures forward and backward traceability. Inside Atmel manufacturing locations, traceability is ensured through the lot number. After delivery, the traceability is ensured via lot number and shipment number. The lot number is marked on each package (this does not apply to multi-chip modules, or bare die). For wafer shipments, the lot number and wafer number are scribed at the base of the wafer. The lot number is also marked on the intermediate container label (inner-most shipping carton). For ceramic imaging products, the lot number is traceable via the Certificate of Conformance. From the lot number, Atmel can retrieve all associated manufacturing, final test, and shipment paperwork within 24 hours.

Atmel's base lot number uses the following format: Y@XXXX, whereby, "Y" corresponds to the last digit in the year, "@" indicates both the fabrication site and quarter, and "XXXX" is a counter that resets at the beginning of each quarter.

and

Country of Origin, Diffusion, and Assembly

All of this information is provided on the packing list that is included with each shipment. The packing list also provides a complete list of lot numbers, date codes, and quantities.

Counterfeit chips may not be properly marked, or marked at all.

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Paul__B:
Aside from the ethics, I do believe the fact is that the Atmel chips in the "real" Arduinox, as well as essentially all the support components, are made in China.

Are they really going to set up a lot of secondary fab facilities just to make second-rate clones? Why not just use the same factories; the same masks; the same runs?

Nothing if not practical, those Chinese!

And, bought in bulk, are dirt cheap. As is their labour cost.

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The question of ethics is interesting. On the one hand, it is considered unethical to buy clones/counterfeits as they are not supporting the people who designed them.

Yet, nearly all the companies like Atmel do not support their home country by having fabs there and giving jobs to domestic workers. Instead they send the work abroad, and do not support their own country.

Of course, the reason they do it is purely mercenary - they can make cheaper product and make more profits that way. And ironically, the reason there are so many clones/counterfeits on the market is exactly because these companies have sent their IP abroad to countries with very lax IP protections.

So there seems to be a double standard, and a problem largely caused by their own making. Consumers are expected to be ethical, but companies are not?

If you saw the recent documentary about how Apple are still ruthlessly exploiting foreign workers, you should probably feel more guilty about buying genuine products.

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You are asked to buy at least one official Arduino to support what you get for free.
Look at the site docs telling you to make your own stand-alones for end products.
Look at the OPEN SOURCE documents.

A $2 pro-mini is a bargain just because a single 328P costs more but sometime make your own perhaps with a different chip and/or on a board with parts that you won't find together elsewhere.

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Lost track of this topic as a result of not understanding the forum interface as well as I should.

GoForSmoke nailed the point that has been bothering me: How can a Pro Mini clone cost less than a 328P?

I'm fine with cloning, but not fine with fakes (ie. trademark infringement). However, selling a complete Pro Mini for less than the cost of its most important component... Maybe the components are recycled or defective in some way? Or maybe the completed boards failed testing? If they are defective, I haven't run across it yet. (But having only used five clones to-date, that is unsurprising.)

They may be all made at the same place as Paul suggests. I don't have enough of a variety to tell.

LarryD's point about helping out in other ways is well-made. Of course, at this point, I don't have a lot of experience to share.

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And yet you will be able to make very welcome contributions over here.
Learning can be reading a lot, for everyone.
There's a lot of knowledge around here.

You can tell about your first steps positive as well as mistakes (you might get embarrassed a bit sometimes, but most of us will have a smile because they recognise their own first steps in it).
Others can learn from your adventures.
If you end up with questions, take your time in composing the message you will put that question in.
Tell about all steps you made, show code if applicable.
And use code tags and similar tools available (you did read the forum manual (click!), right ?
Read your messages before submitting them, and after that once more.
You'll see that sometimes you should edit your message to clear things up a bit.

I've found that trying to help others by answering their questions (sometimes making mistakes in my replies, triggering others to reply to that), help me learn too.
And i still see myself as a beginner, even though i've been around for over 2 years now.