So I bought some new W10 laptops for Christmas gifts.
The "setup" procedure is now narrated by voice, with Cortana doing the honors.
And she's "snarky" (sarcastic, etc)! "Here we're asking you to agree to the microsoft windows license agreement. You don't have to agree, but then ... no windows!" "Please enter internet connection information so that you can get to downloading those cat videos as quickly as possible."
westfw:
You don't have to agree, but then ... no windows!"
Sounds like an invitation to switch to Linux.
It's a disgrace that it is impossible to buy every PC or laptop slightly cheaper without Windows.
...R
westfw:
So I bought some new W10 laptops for Christmas gifts.
Presumably for people you don't like very much.
I am setting up my new computer. It has windows 10. This is my first experience with windows 10. So far, i do not like windows 10. I do not like it on a plane. I would not like it on a train.
Robin2:
Sounds like an invitation to switch to Linux.It's a disgrace that it is impossible to buy every PC or laptop slightly cheaper without Windows.
...R
Probably because it's easier to load Windows 10 with useless money-making junk to subsidy the cost of laptop or computer but Linux is a bit harder because there aren't many people who will buy computer with Linux pre-installed so there aren't any incentive to code some new money-grabbing junkware to shove into new Linux based computers. Plus even if they did, there are over 600 variations of Linux and nearly all of them freely available so there's nothing to prevent new users from wiping the drive clean and installing virgin ad-free OS. Windows aren't available for free so users can't just wipe drive and install one to delete all the junkware.
there aren't any incentive to code some new money-grabbing junkware to shove into new Linux based computers.
The last few linux installs I've made have come with their share of "junkware."
I have trouble believing that it's so difficult to start up a plain old xterm (or any other classic unix shell commands) on a modern linux 
I sort-of put "Windows" in the same "category" with "Arduino" - if I wanted everything I did to be an adventure, requiring me to track down how-to instructions from weird corners of the net, and didn't care if anything I did was ever usable or accessible by anyone else, I'd probably do something different...
wilykat:
but Linux is a bit harder because there aren't many people who will buy computer with Linux pre-installed
So why not sell the PC or laptop with no operating system and without the cost of whatever Microsoft charges. People who use Linux generally know how to install it.
The way PCs are sold is the equivalent of refrigerators being sold full of food you don't want.
...R
Windows costs as little as $0 for a vendor to add to a PC. Or it did back in the windows 8.1 timeframe.
westfw:
Windows costs as little as $0 for a vendor to add to a PC.
That sort of scam should be prohibited as an abuse of a dominant position in the market.
And while it means they don't have to pay Microsoft anything there must be some small cost in actually loading the Windows software onto a hard disk and verifying it.
...R
Windows is a lot more user friendly then mac or Libya. No audio app bash get to deal with... plus, I think it organizes its windows better than mac...
I like macs because they make zero noise.
Linux is only needed for a specialized reasons.... what advantage does it have for the layman?
Robin2:
That sort of scam should be prohibited as an abuse of a dominant position in the market.
The real scam is the difference in price between OEM, volume licenses and retail licenses. Small businesses can end up being stuffed into retail licenses costing 100% to 1000% more than anyone else is paying. Automatic updates too. Apart from being legalised vandalism, incremental updates give Microsoft the opportunity to render a Windows PC prematurely obsolete.
And while it means they don't have to pay Microsoft anything there must be some small cost in actually loading the Windows software onto a hard disk and verifying it.
To get the very best OEM terms, manufacturers used to have to agree to supply Windows on every PC they shipped. If you wanted Linux or whatever, you had to buy a Windows PC and format it. I don't know whether that is still the case.
The manufacture cost is mainly in developing the duplication images. Especially as Microsoft go to some lengths to cripple 3rd party imaging tools. Once the image is working, economy of scale can make it more expensive to supply anything other than Windows. Intervention in a production process is, relatively speaking, very expensive.
Bloatware became a feature of Windows installations during the price wars of the Noughties. In an effort to gain market share, manufacturers cut their margins back. Rumour has it Dell and HP went as low as 2%. To sure up the vanishing margin, they started selling space on the Desktop to the likes of McAfee, Cyberlink and Wild Tangent. Microsoft adopted the model with Windows 8, turning the start menu into a full screen bill board. It got pared back in Windows 10 but the start menu is still an advertising channel and 'you are the product.'
Where Microsoft go next is hard to say. There is not enough growth or money in selling your own desktop operating systems any more. It wouldn't surprise me to see a Linux derived 'Microsoft Windows' within the next 5 years.
That's already how it is going, windows isn't going to release any new operating systems, e.g., windows 11z
I use Linux a lot.... windows 10 hardly ever crashes, most printers automatically install on windows without needing to download a driver.... laymen don't care about open source.
Windows 10 may not crash often, but it seems to spend an awful lot of time updating itself.
It does update all the time...
Qdeathstar:
laymen don't care about open source.
I understand that.
However that is not a good reason to allow Microsoft to abuse its market position and force people who do like OpenSource to take Windows software that they neither need nor want.
I am certainly not, and never have been an IT professional. I switched to Linux years ago because I was not prepared to pay the price to upgrade Windows XP professional to whatever came next. And because I was fed up with the wading-through-treacle speed at which Windows booted. Even now (watching a friend's laptop) it seems to take forever just to load the device manager program. And at the time I bought the laptop with XP professional (it cost over €1000 IIRC) because I thought that was the only way to get a web server - not realizing I could have had it all free (and better) with Linux.
...R
Delta_G:
I would add something about viruses and the size of the target being why most are written for Windows systems
This is a subject that really p****es me off about Microsoft.
Medical experts have understood for 100 years or more how nature deals with viruses - by diversity. It is why in-breeding is forbidden in most human societies. But Microsoft has never taken a blind bit of notice and continues to pump-out billions of identical clones.
Mind you, Google / Android is probably not any better.
...R
Delta_G:
I don't know how diversity of OS would work.
Windows viruses don't normally work on Linux. But there are many legitimate programs (such as Libre Office) that work on both.
I realize it would be expensive, but all Microsoft has to to is create and distribute (say) 3 other operating systems that cannot share viruses and ensure that each variety gets roughly equal distribution among users. That's how nature does it. And it is probably expensive for nature also.
...R
I realize it would be expensive
And who should pay that bill, you? This is a law enforcement problem not a damn programming problem. And, beyond that, it is a liberal problem because the judges don't have the spines to give harsh sentences.
Look up a few of the sentences handed down. That german kid got a couple of years for a virus that affected millions. That gucifer f'er got like 4 years. Ransom ware is an act of war and should be dealt with as such.