MarkT:
I repeat, beta is the small signal current gain, its nothing to do with operating a transistor at saturation, and
its measured in the standard forward region of operation.
OK, maybe I'm using the term incorrectly. I learned that Beta is the ratio of lC to IB. Typically, when the VCE(sat) is specified in a datasheet, it includes the IC and IB where this saturation voltage is expected, and is usually a ratio of 10 to 20. So, this is not Beta? I understand that there is a beta [typically referred to as "hFE"] for the active region of the transistor [the maximum Beta?]. But, it's my understanding that there is also a "forced Beta" for driving the transistor into saturation, or near saturation.
I mean, the lC to IB ratio varies for different operating points, even in the active region. Transistor datasheets often specify more than one hFE, for various Collector currents.
In the regions, near saturation, the ratio can be quite a bit less. In fact, this ratio doesn't just, suddenly change from the datasheet hFE, to the 10 or 20 ratio that occurs when the transistor is "turned on". It's a smooth transition [not linear, but also, not sudden]. So, at what point does it stop being the Beta, and exists, merely, as a current ratio?