Destructive EMP Devices

Community Bar Sport
41

raschemmel:
Unless you are a complete moron and total idiot, you must realize that such informatiion is classified "Need to Know" because if it fell into the wrong hands ( people lke you) it could be used for evil purposes and youe curiisity does NOT constitute a "Need to Know". .

Your last reply confirms my suspicions about you.

Eh...no. I assumed that the same scientific principles of electronics used to create productive devices were the same principles that could be used to create harmful ones. I don't see how this information could be secret knowledge at the end of the day, unless you're talking about a blueprint for a doomsday weapon. Anyway, like I said I'll know what I'm trying to learn eventually by some means, so you can live in fear of what I'll do with the information once I have it anyway.

Boardburner2:
There is no such thing as a mini EMP device.
They require vast power to operate as such.
Nuclear bomb power type.

Okay...so maybe I'm using the term EMP a bit generically. All I really mean by it is a disruptive electrical force. I'm not really sure of the distinction between what I mean and what EMP means in technical jargon. Can the effect of a large scale EMP not be emulated on a smaller scale with more sensitive electronic targets, or is an EMP in your terms only possible on a large scale period?

42

Read this

and try this

It won't cause much disruption because the energy stored in the cap is low. Enough to make a flash go off in the camera, but minuscule compared to neighboring radio stations.

43

CrossRoads:
Read this
Electromagnetic pulse - Wikipedia

Thanks! I had no idea wiki could be so reliable for something like this. I've read a little so far - electromagnetic waves seem like an interesting subject. I've never known much about them other than that they are different to sound waves.

44

I made something similar to the device pointed out by CrossRoads

(3 Ways to Build an EMP Generator - wikiHow )

some years ago for remagnetising motorcycle magnetos - it worked fine. But I did use a low esr 470uF/600v at abour 350v.

All it did was remagnetise the mag - there's not enough energy ( about 28 J) to do much else.

regards

Allan

45

You see how at no point have I said I actually wanted to make a powerful EMP, but have only asked how to increase the power and range of a simple circuit, and how everything about how the simple circuit works?

I am interested in how they destroy things because that gives me a tangible real world example of the amount of power involved in a device releasing its maximum power. So in essence, when someone asks me how big in scope an EMP device would have to be to disable every computer in the street, I want to be able to take into account the distance between houses, the walls of the houses shielding the contents of the house, the sensitivity of the electrical devices etc, and I want to immediately have an instinctual idea of the scope of such a device, from the components to the power requirements. And do you know how I plan to achieve that level of intuition for myself? By understanding how it all works

You claim you only have curiosity and not intent, but when that curiosity is about something destructive it implies intent.

Suppose I said I am curious about how to kill people but I don't want to kill people.

Would that not raise some eyebrows and have people dialing 911 ?

Is there any difference between what you are doing and someone saying :

"I am curious how to build an atomic bomb, but I don't want to actually do it, I just want to know how to do it"

?

Clearly the content of your posts is not about someone asking how to do a harmless science project.
The posts that Crossroads and Allan linked are not about experiments that take out an entire city block like you asked:

Subsequently I would be interested to know how you could make such a basic device have more power or range (so in other words, how to we step it up from something that can break a watch to something that destroys every computer in the room? What about every computer in the street? etc.)

To me, this implies intent:

Eh...no. I assumed that the same scientific principles of electronics used to create productive devices were the same principles that could be used to create harmful ones. I don't see how this information could be secret knowledge at the end of the day, unless you're talking about a blueprint for a doomsday weapon. Anyway, like I said I'll know what I'm trying to learn eventually by some means, so you can live in fear of what I'll do with the information once I have it anyway.

I am actually not afraid yet because we have 12 year olds posting that have learned more about electronics in 6 months than you know now. In fact, when I was a restaurant cook in 1979 and didn't even know what a resistor was, I learned more about electronics in one evening with a Heathkit Electronic Circuits Home Study course than you know now, I started at 12 midnight and by sunrise I had built about 15 circuits and was able to describe their operation to my roommate (who didn't understand a word I was saying). I spent the next year learing electronics at home before I could get a entry level technician job.

Your knowledge of keyloggers isn't going to help you with electronics. If you were interested in electronics per se, you wouldn't need to post. the reason you are posting is that you are NOT interested in electronics per se. You are only interested in the electronics necessary to accomplish your nefarious objective:

Subsequently I would be interested to know how you could make such a basic device have more power or range (so in other words, how to we step it up from something that can break a watch to something that destroys every computer in the room? What about every computer in the street? etc.)

46

Boardburner2:
There is no such thing as a mini EMP device.
They require vast power to operate as such.
Nuclear bomb power type.

Not so.
Explosives, yes, but not necessarily nukes (though like implosion nukes, I suspect the timing and composition is critical)

47

@raschemel Can you please just leave me alone now? I've said everything I can to describe my intent. If you still can't trust me or whatever I DO NOT CARE. Other people are posting straight answers and you're just here to argue with me that you think I shouldn't know some stuff that you know. Get over yourself.

You're taking things I say and coming to your own conclusions which is fine, but if you want to to be genuinely correct you should listen carefully. You are judging my character poorly. If I had malicious intent, and if I thought the fact I can write a keylogger for e.g would give you anything to hold against me, why would I have mentioned it? If I was up to no good, why would I be entirely transparent about everything I'm saying? If I had something to hide, wouldn't I try and hide it? If you can't figure this sort of logical premise out on your own, you can't be a very good judge of these things, can you? You're happy to just sit there telling people about the warped idea you have of them.

You don't have a clue what I know either. I didn't know why a wire was coiled in a circuit, so I asked. Helpful people don't try and belittle others when they ask basic questions. You want to compare me to 12 year olds to try and make me feel inferior? Go ahead. I value you myself by being a good person towards others, not being better than 12 year olds. And when I said you should live in fear of what I'll do, it was directly in response to you inferring I had evil intentions, and that 'your suspicions' about me were correct. Frankly, I'm not even interested in what those suspicions are - that just told me I didn't want to waste my time with you any longer. You haven't got a clue what I know, or how I use my knowledge most often. You just know that I'm curious about how potentially dangerous stuff works and you're running with it as far as you can. You're only taking the fact I know about keyloggers negatively which is very ignorant. Do you know anything about cyber-security professionals and what they need to know to do their job well? Do you know what professional ethical penetration testing involves? It involves hacking by the exact same means as a malicious hacker would use. Do you know how cyber-criminals think, and if not, how do you expect to outsmart one? Oh, I guess I'm a terrorist for even understanding ethical hacking now, right?

I dunno why you highlighted the quotes you did in red - I've said all of this explicitly and am not hiding it: EXPLOSIONS ARE FASCINATING, ENERGY IS FASCINATING, DESTRUCTIVE FORCES ARE FASCINATING, LIGHTNING STORMS CAN KILL PEOPLE AND THEY ARE FASCINATING (but not because they kill people you fallacious troll). Stop trying to twist all the moments where I'm just being honest about my interests (which are pretty normal actually) into me having some kind of evil intent. Yeah I get why you might've been suspicious at first, but nobody else here is still going on about this except you. You're still sitting there trying to twist what I'm saying into some fallacious idea that I've done something wrong here. At this point you don't even know what I spend most of my time on outside electronics, but you probably think it involves strapping bombs to my chest. Well sorry to disappoint you, but let me tell you who you are talking to. I write audio plugins for computer music compoisition and I love it. I make computer games too. I'm working on one now about a dystopian future, and for example if I understood more about EMPs, I'd maybe even use EMPs in my game. I'm a detail oriented person, and I love complexity and intricacies in things. I'm wildly obsessed by how things work. Mostly, I'm just a creative type of person with an advanced technical knowledge at the end of the day, but bottom line is I think like an artist. Electronics is just a hobby. EMP is just something I think is cool and want to learn all about, and the fact I'm technically adept means I'll probably try to build a device designed to break a watch just as proof of concept of what I've learned and for fun. That's all this is, and you're mentally inventing the rest. I have one more interest you should know about - psychology. Do you know why you're still trying to undermine me and reframe everything I say? It's because I don't respect you, and you can't stand it. You most likely have a a great knowledge of the subject I'm asking about, but because I've not treated you like my superior, you are trying to make me feel inferior to punish me, and try and stop me easily obtaining something that perhaps you worked hard for; something other people are posting answers about anyway, proving that you are not doing this for any real world purpose. Nope, you are still arguing with me because you'd feel humiliated to concede. If you were to concede, you would have to accept that you've been a complete dick to someone who didn't deserve it. It's much easier to keep thinking I'm a selfish malicious evil terrorist isn't it? Protect your ego if you must. It's ironic you would compare me to 12 year olds and call me a moron - you'd have to be a moron or in plain denial to fail to notice that I'm intelligent. Before you reply, I'd ask you please take a moment to understand how right I am about the situation and consider not provoking me any further with your petty theories. I honestly just want to talk about EMPs and for you to stop arguing with me for the sake of your pride.

48

Keep it civil.

No more warnings.

49

So, have you watched that educational video I posted for you yet?
Would you like some educational videos about psychology as well, since you're also demonstrating a lack of knowledge in that area?

50

INTP:
So, have you watched that educational video I posted for you yet?
Would you like some educational videos about psychology as well, since you're also demonstrating a lack of knowledge in that area?

As we've been warned to keep it civil, I won't rise to that... I will say I'm unsure how you could validate my understanding of psychology from my posts here - I wasn't writing my thesis on the human mind, but responding in my own way to someone who was irritating me. Besides, 'cyber-psychology' is a whole new field and not theoretically solid anyway.

Thanks for pointing out in the new thread I started that this had been moved; I tried to reply that in the other thread but it's locked now. I can't remember which video specifically was posted by you, but yesterday I watched a video of high powered devices one of which crushed a penny, if that was the one you mean? I also was lead from that video to another by the same people featuring tesla coils being used to play music which was really cool. Apart from that I skim read tutorials on some devices people posted, but mainly have been reading through the wiki link someone posted as it seems to be a really good learning resource. Also had no idea what a motorbike magneto was so I pulled some videos on those too, but so far they are raising more questions for me than they answer e.g. 'what the hell is flux?'.

51

Thanks for pointing out in the new thread I started that this had been moved;

Calicocat
Posts: 1
Karma: 1

As is evident from your stats, you are not familiar with forum protocol. You did not start a new thread and neither did you have anything to do with it being moved. Any discussion that does not meet the criteria of "General Electronics" is automatically eventually moved to "Bar/Sport etc" . Otherwise that topic would be full of garbage.

In other words, you have been booted out of General Electronics for asking non-general questions.

If your post had been a sane and serious post about a specific specialty , like High Power, the GM would have moved it to the High Power topic where the specialists could address it.

The fact that it was move here to Bar/Sport means either that the GM felt it was not to be taken seriously or it was not General Electronics , or (more likely) both.

For the record:

A- I did not compare you to a moron. I said "Unless you are a moron , you must know etc etc."

B- As Hollywood knows, it is not necessary to be technically accurate. (to make video games).
This is why in movies, the highest defense posture is Defcon-4, when anyone in the military
and tell you it is DEFCON-1:

The defense readiness condition (DEFCON) is an alert state used by the United States Armed Forces.[1]

The DEFCON system was developed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) and unified and specified combatant commands.[2] It prescribes five graduated levels of readiness (or states of alert) for the U.S. military. It increases in severity from DEFCON 5 (least severe) to DEFCON 1 (most severe) to match varying military situations

C- I am not concerned about your keylogger experience. I am concerned because you posted asking how to build destructive tech. If you want to clarify your intentions as not being nefarious all you have to do is simply state the following:

"To whom it may concern,
I DO NOT want to know HOW to build a destructive EMP device, NOR do I want to know HOW it works."

That's fairly clear isn't it ? If you want me to "leave you alone" , then do that.

D-My comments about your knowledge of electronics are based on your admission that you did not even know how a coil works. Based on this admission, I concluded that since a simple search of Google yields this:
How does a coil work ?

About 38,700,000 results (0.59 seconds)

(38 million + hits)

that you in fact are not interested in how a coil works but rather are seeking the recipe to build destructive tech. Had you wanted to know how a coil works you would have used Google, learned something and THEN posted asking how to SUPERSIZE IT. (which would have ended with the same result of being moved here to Bar/Sport.

So what is it ?

Do you , or do you not want to know how to build a destructive EMP device that can take out an entire city block ?

It's a simple yes or no question.

@raschemel Can you please just leave me alone now?

I honestly just want to talk about EMPs and for you to stop arguing with me for the sake of your pride.

Your post is inappropriate.

If you want to be left alone, clarify by stating :

"To whom it may concern,
I DO NOT want to know HOW to build a destructive EMP device, NOR do I want to know HOW it works."

FYI,
"flux"

52

raschemmel:
Calicocat
Posts: 1
Karma: 1

As is evident from your stats, you are not familiar with forum protocol. You did not start a new thread and neither did you have anything to do with it being moved. Any discussion that does not meet the criteria of "General Electronics" is automatically moved to "Bar/Sport etc" .

To clarify:
Yes, a new topic was started. First it was locked, then when it became clear that the OP was aware of that, and the location of the original thread, the new topic was deleted; it was pointless.
The stats are skewed; posts in Bar Sport do not count towards posting totals.
No posts are "automatically" moved.

I repeat; KEEP IT CIVIL

53

AWOL:
Not so.
Explosives, yes, but not necessarily nukes (though like implosion nukes, I suspect the timing and composition is critical)

I mentioned this earlier .
Just trying to make a point.
The thread seems to have taken a turn of it's own though.

54

@raschemmel I'm sure you can at least agree the majority of our discussion is pointless, and I'm tired of going back and forth . Yes games and fiction don't need to be real, but have you ever heard of procedural physics in games? There are plenty of justifiable game applications that could depend on a real world understanding of weapon tech. Besides, in turn gaming applications are just one example of a harmless thing that this knowledge can be used for. I think the reason you can't understand my intentions is that you fail to grasp that I don't have any specific intentions at all. I literally am just learning about something I'm interested in, and that's all I know for sure. I don't know exactly what I will apply this knowledge to, so you can't tell me its a simple yes or no question. You're asking if I want to know how to build an emp to take out a city block, and the answer is yes but only in a sense. I'm just taking the size of a city block to get a mental picture in my head. So imagine in a game I had a character who was going to use an emp to destroy things in a similar range, if there was a puzzle involved where the character had to use the correct amount of power to knock out one block exactly - no more blocks or he alerts the authorities, no less or he fails to disable his target. I am saying that if I made a game like that, I wouldn't want the power for the emp to just be made up numbers. I also would want there to be truth to whatever the character actually does to vary the power and range. What components does he tinker with? Yeah I could just make something up, but I remind you I am not here because I want to make a game about EMPs - I am here because I'm learning about something interesting with no particular intent other than to discover whatever I find out along the way. And that is also why I don't Google search a coil - I like to learn by asking questions like my OP because there are lots of avenues to go down once I get an answer. Some things I didn't even know the concept of before I posted: a magneto, flux, different types of induction... I'm sure to you it's all very basic stuff Im picking up here, but there are a lot of concepts to be found in the question I asked for me. So the reason I want to know this stuff is because I want to learn about electronics by way of an example that I find interesting. I don't have intent because I haven't thought that far ahead. You wouldn't be asking me why I started listening to a learn Japanese audio book a few weeks ago, but if you did the answer would be the same. I have even less idea why I started doing that. Is it suspicious that I can't provide a reason for wanting to know Japanese? And if not, why is it suspicious that I want to know how a futuristic type of weapon would actually work in the real world? Its just a point of curiosity. I learn a lot of things impulsively and its just what I'm like. Some people are like that. Now do you understand why your attitude towards me has been a little bit demonizing for lack of a better word? Its like none of that ever occurred to you the entire time you were saying I might be a terrorist...

By the way, I really don't know what you mean by my forum stats, but I did start a different thread to this one that got locked - I was referring to it.

55

Mods.
This topic has wandered off to non arduino land.
Suggest Bar sport or locked.

56

@Boardburner2,
I don't know where YOU have been but this post has been in "Bar"Sport" since before Reply #49 when the OP says:
"thanks for pointing out in a new thread that I started that it had been moved "
I'll let you use your imagination to figure out why it was moved here (didn't see the OP request that).

I have been unsuccessful in explaining whh it is not a good idea to explain how to build an EMP weapon on an international forum and that video game accuracy or idle curiosity is not sufficient justification to tell the whole world how go build an EMP weapon that can take out a city block. Is this something we want falling into the hands of terrorists ?
Does the OP think the terrorists don't use the internet ?

57

raschemmel:
Does the OP think the terrorists don't use the internet ?

Are you saying that if you had a terrorism agenda you would come HERE for that info? How stupid do you think people are??

*I wasn't literally asking for a full blown step by step of a device that could take out a city block either (I DID say I wanted to understand how it worked, but I meant I'd be doing my own research in conjunction with reading answers). I asked for a blueprint for small device in detail , and then for the principles of making it more powerful and having more range to be discussed. There's no way what ends up in this thread is gonna constitute a full set of instructions all on its own. You're being over the top about how sensitive this information actually is - I mean you must be, because how complicated can the answer be? It doesn't strike me as a complicated device - just an incredibly powerful one. It's just a short release of energy isn't it? If it's not complicated, you can hardly protect the information, can you? People will figure it out if they want to.

58

Another series of articles on EMP generators.

"A simple EMP consists of a capacitor, transformer, trigger, and coil of copper wire. This, when triggered, would produce an intense magnetic field for a brief period, similar to a coil gun (see this article for more info). On a small scale, this would be enough to reset a calculator or electronic clock, but not enough to be of any use. However, it is quite easy to make a more effective one (at close range), with a few more components, and time."

So nothing really secret there.

59

And part 3, which part 2 doesn't seem to have a link to:

60

calicocat:
Are you saying that if you had a terrorism agenda you would come HERE for that info? How stupid do you think people are??

How long will it be before google picks up this thread and directs terrorists searching for EMP devices here?
How stupid are you?