INTP:
Flexible core + modules for prototyping works well. I don't see the point of making permanent things at an impermanent stage.
If future proofing is at all a goal, it directly contradicts the "I make do with 8kb and all of you bastards are wasteful". More space is more future proof. How big is the house you live in? Would you turn down a larger house?
That is my Dilemma. I want something more flexible, yet I also want it to be more permanent. Basically to reduce cost and make things easier for me. Atmega8 is my favorite chip, but it's not used in my future proof board. I am using an atmega16/32 instead. To uncontradict your argument, simply ask yourself this: if you are going to live by yourself, do you want to live in the white house ( You probably need to take a bus to get to the bathroom), or a small New York apartment with a lot hot girls next doors? It's pretty obvious, unless you are gay or a girl. Either way size really doesn't matter when you know how to use it properly and enjoy using it, the atmega8 of course.
This is it. My future proof board. Only need to wire it up to go. Hopefully it works out fine.
Uncontradiction failed. If you want to analogize computer parts to females....
You are basically talking about getting married to the older chip and convincing yourself you would turn down a younger, more agile chip you can put more into.
But unlike human beings, chips just get old without gaining any qualities it didn't initially have.
Atmega8, Atmega48, 88, 168 and 328 are all the same pinout, same socket.
Use a board with a 28-pin socket and you can use ANY of them,an Uno R3 for example.
How can you write of versatility and boards not becoming obsolete while opposing newer chips that fit the same boards? The many different AVR's that can fit and work in that socket and board -make- it versatile but still I have this idea that end products should not contain development boards.
When I load an Uno I get a report on flash and ram used. I know what pins I use but big deal between pin-identical chips huh? I can develop sketches for Atmega8 chips on Atmega328 chips. I can't do that the other way around, the bigger chip serves the dev board role better.
Atmega8 is just an attiny85 with 20 extra pins and twice the price! ;D
As long as you're going to handicap yourself, go the 8-pin route and use shift registers.
Robin2:
Permanent is not an option in the world of computing.
You or I can chose to stop at some particular place but the rest of the world keep rushing headlong to ... ?
The more you write the more I see parallels with what I wrote in Reply #7 about a "philosophical crisis"
...R
Do you know that the nuclear launching system in the US still uses very old computers? Tell them to upgrade their computer. LOL. You probably have seen and experienced a lot of things in your life and call them the truth, but little do you know that they are nothing but shallows in the cave.
INTP:
Uncontradiction failed. If you want to analogize computer parts to females....
You are basically talking about getting married to the older chip and convincing yourself you would turn down a younger, more agile chip you can put more into.
But unlike human beings, chips just get old without gaining any qualities it didn't initially have.
I didn't think I have compared computer parts to females, unless you think the white house or a New York apartment is a sweetheart, but since you have started a new argument with females then let me ununcontrade you again. When you are married to someone regardless of their age, it is because of truth love and of who they are, and nothing else. So will you abandon your older wife if she ages without gaining any qualities, and trying to get a younger woman, again hoping that she would gain some qualities when she ages? Obviously Not. and for an atmega8 chip, according to the datasheet, it will last up to 100 years at 25°C, and that is truth love according to Shakespare, Sonnet 116.
"Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O, no! it is an ever-fixed mark,
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come;
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved."
GoForSmoke:
Atmega8, Atmega48, 88, 168 and 328 are all the same pinout, same socket.
Use a board with a 28-pin socket and you can use ANY of them,an Uno R3 for example.
How can you write of versatility and boards not becoming obsolete while opposing newer chips that fit the same boards? The many different AVR's that can fit and work in that socket and board -make- it versatile but still I have this idea that end products should not contain development boards.
When I load an Uno I get a report on flash and ram used. I know what pins I use but big deal between pin-identical chips huh? I can develop sketches for Atmega8 chips on Atmega328 chips. I can't do that the other way around, the bigger chip serves the dev board role better.
Atmega8 is just an attiny85 with 20 extra pins and twice the price! ;D
As long as you're going to handicap yourself, go the 8-pin route and use shift registers.
I have a already made few boards for the 28-pin Chip, and done a project with it, but to be honest with you, it's not an elegant finishing project.
Built it because the Uno is too expensive and big.
This is my newest attempt to make a simple, versatile and elegant future proof board using a atmega16 in SMT. (although it's done by now, feel free to give me some comment and suggestion.) The Dip package is too big, it's considered obsolete, but since people/hobbyists will continue to use it for years to come, it will really never get obsolete, similar to a classic 555 timer chip.
According to myself, attiny85 is twice as expensive than the atmega8. Probably because more people are using the attiny85 than the atmega8. and I am currently getting into the atmega48, which is again much cheaper than the atmega8.
flyandance:
Do you know that the nuclear launching system in the US still uses very old computers? Tell them to upgrade their computer.
That is an entirely different issue. They have a system that works (though we might prefer if it didn't) so why waste money making another system.
However, as far as I can tell, you are talking about making a new thing - so why not use modern technology.
I have not got the impression from anything you have said that you want to build some specific project that will be expected to work and to be maintainable for the next 35 years.
As far as I can see you want to design something that people still want to use in NEW projects in 35 years time. The probablilty of that is very very small.
And none of the "computer" things that are still available to buy after many years (such as 74LSxx chips) was designed with a long future life in mind. They were designed to solve a "now" question when "now" was "way back then".
Robin2:
That is an entirely different issue. They have a system that works (though we might prefer if it didn't) so why waste money making another system.
However, as far as I can tell, you are talking about making a new thing - so why not use modern technology.
I have not got the impression from anything you have said that you want to build some specific project that will be expected to work and to be maintainable for the next 35 years.
As far as I can see you want to design something that people still want to use in NEW projects in 35 years time. The probablilty of that is very very small.
And none of the "computer" things that are still available to buy after many years (such as 74LSxx chips) was designed with a long future life in mind. They were designed to solve a "now" question when "now" was "way back then".
...R
Exactly, if something works, why bother to waste money making another system? Just like what I have said long before, not broken, don't fix. You can still buy 7400 and 4000 series ICs designed 50+ years ago. Will they ever get obsolete? I don't think so, and the atmega8 has also been updated with the atmega88. I have built few LED clocks, and they are used to tell you when now is, which is probably a question people 100 years from now also want to know the answer of. And it is not great if people 35 years from now still want to use any design in their new projects, instead of creating something with such a short life-span that end up in landfill and poison the environment? You really should ask yourself why the "computer" things that they, whoever they are, designed was not supposed to solve the future problem.
flyandance:
Exactly, if something works, why bother to waste money making another system? Just like what I have said long before, not broken, don't fix. You can still buy 7400 and 4000 series ICs designed 50+ years ago. Will they ever get obsolete? I don't think so, and the atmega8 has also been updated with the atmega88. I have built few LED clocks, and they are used to tell you when now is, which is probably a question people 100 years from now also want to know the answer of. And it is not great if people 35 years from now still want to use any design in their new projects, instead of creating something with such a short life-span that end up in landfill and poison the environment? You really should ask yourself why the "computer" things that they, whoever they are, designed was not supposed to solve the future problem.
But, you are arguing against your own request.
when I started with Arduinos, getting anything onto the internet was very complicated and un-reliable. now, people use their phone to access the switch that is right in front ofthemselves.
we use Ardino's with the chip at 16mhz, not because it is leading edge, but because it is much faster than anything we actually need. just how fast to you need to be to measure soil moisture ?
in 50 or 100 years, the laws of the physical universe will still require x nubmer of BTU's getting into water to make it boil for a cup of coffee. thermal transfer from one thing to another will be the same.
that is the world of the Arduino.
if you watch this board for any time, you will realize that anyone who uses an Arduino is working in a rhealm of control. without reservation, every single ARDUNO 328 ever made has the same basic I/O.
however, if you want to spin you mind a bit, what if you get a job at Cyberdyne ? it is the future of computing.
