I started Arduino a couple of month back. I am working on my first real projects. So recently I was looking at schematic software I could learn to do schematics with.
SInce the Arduino people make their schematics with Eagle, I figured I would try it ( after trying a few others). I downloaded the free edition. I did my first decent sized schematic with it, and after a while, I found it decent.
There seems to be some libraries out there for it, so that was a plus for me (adafruit, sparkfun)
So for the Arduino beginner (but tech oriented) should I stick with Eagle or try something else and why?
I tried Eagle, then got fed up with the painful non-standard Windows interface, tried as few others, then came back to Eagle. The others were more intuitive, but ultimately I found the 'compatibility' issue to be more important.
It is a pain to get used to and I go through the process every time I pick it up because I don't use it all the time, but it seems to be widely used and there are a lot of libraries for it. I am sure I can be more productive (write scripts, learn more, etc) but as a casual user I make do. The autorouting for PCBs works well and it is supported by Seeed, which is where I get my boards made.
Once you understand how EAGLE's user interface works (e.g. it isn't an illustration program, it is a CAD program), it is pretty quick to do simple things. However, I find I only use it when I intend to create a PCB.
Really? Must have a different version I never find the results of the autorouter acceptable. Certainly
not for 2-layer. Though I like my boards nice and densely packed
So far my impressions are: The interface works, but it is not as intuitive as it could be. I suppose it needs getting used to.
Examples are (maybe I am missing something): you can't select multiple components by dragging the mouse and deleting for example. You have to click on the delete command and then click on the objects to delete.
Things like that I found to be a bit awkward.
The components are plentiful, and when you are doing arduino stuff and you are using sensor boards, LCDs etc, the libraries available are nice.
I tried Fritzing briefly and was not terribly impressed.
Currently I am still an electronics newcomer (but enginnering type so technically oriented) so so far only interested in schematics. I will one day delve into boards, but not right now.
marco_c:
I tried Eagle, then got fed up with the painful non-standard Windows interface, tried as few others, then came back to Eagle. The others were more intuitive, but ultimately I found the 'compatibility' issue to be more important.
What do you mean by compatibility? Used by more people, board manufacturers?
and I wouldnt change.. a lot of schematics & parts are posting in those formats, and even some distributors are posting parts in Eagle format.
At first I found Eagle a PITA.. but after searchign around on the web for a few answers/tutorials.. I found one of he Eagle tips & tricks pages, that had some good info I kept in mind while designing, and it really helped my workflow.
1.) Eagle was designed to be used with a 3 'button mouse',... meaning the scroll wheel a the 3rd button..
get used to what each button (left, right , center) do at different times/places (on parts, on the stage only..etc)
2.) As many Windows are used to.. (like Word for example).. we highlight/select our object FIRST.. then go apply whatever it want to do (bold, underline..etc).. in Eagle it is the opposite.. you select the tool/format/change you wan to perform.. then click on the object you want it applied to..
3.) zoom in & out using mouse wheel.. press mouse wheel and drag to move the stage
4.) click the mouse wheel when placing an object flip-flops between top & bottom layer.. if done while routing.. it will auto drop a VIA for you and continue the trace on the opposite side..
I havent gotten into using the tool bar at top where you can type in stuff for quick commands or shortcuts..but Im sure there is some good stuff there too..
everyone learns their own flow and tricks.. Eagle has a good community support/following too.. so it makes getting help or find support or scripts..etc easier to meet your end goal(s)
You use the dashed outline of a box in the command window (third down on the left?) & highlight areas by dragging mouse. Select the command you want to use. Right click in the highlighted area and a new option appears towards the bottom, such as: Move Group, Copy Group, Rotate Group, Delete Group, if in the board view Ripup Group.
Eagle creates Gerber files for the board houses to build from. iteadstudio has a design rule check .dru that you can run to make sure the board is manufacturable, and a .cam file that you use to create the 13 gerber files they need.
I have Eagle 6.4, it does a pretty fair job autorouting. Have to go back usually and add some Ground vias to make the last few ground connections.
If your parts placement is poor to start with, then it can struggle - but so would you. Good parts placement is the key to successful routing.
I see 6.5 is out now, I haven't tried it yet.
Only thing I find annoying is the way it autozooms sometimes when I just want to pan around. I usually work on a laptop with touch pad & 2 buttons, having a mouse might work better.
ESC & CTRL-Z make it easy to cancel an unintentional action or to undo a change. I use those a lot to move a part around on the schematics to check that all wires are connected, and on board layout to move traces slightly to allow ground plane to fill in, to make room for a new via, etc. Click Rats Nest in between actions to confirm the change, make sure something else didn't get hosed.
Every time I try Eagle, I get fed up with its obnoxious UI. ExpressPCB/SCH have the best UI I've ever used, but 1) you shoot yourself in the foot using a package tied to a particular manufacturing house; 2) parts selection is dismal, but I have built my own library; 3) it doesn't support a lot of (mildly) advanced features, like auto-routing (beneath me -- I am an arTISTE! ), non-round pad holes, routing holes within a board / panelizing, etc...
Still, I find Eagle schematics ugly, and the UI counter-intuitive, so I design my schemes/boards in friendly software, then weep as I pay The Man for the finished PCBs.
Why a reasonable CAD app with Gerber compatibility does not exist, I just don't know... Someday I will find/write a file converter.
I didn't like eagle when I started, but the difficulty was in selecting components out of all the hundreds of libraries.
Now that I've used it more, I like it a lot more.
But I still use expresspcb when I want to do something quick for posting here. Their $51 for 3 non-labelled/non-soldermasked cards is too steep for me now that I found $24.90 for 10 100mm x 10mm cards elsewhere.
Started exactly the same way as the OP. As most of the people above have noted, it takes time to get used to Eagle.
I still remember the first time I tried to create my own component, all said it might have taken me days :-). Now it takes a minute or so.
My one hint, particularly when designing components, would be don't try to do accurate work with the mouse. Drop your pads, holes, outlines, etc. roughly then do some sums and edit the properties manually.
I started using eagle a Loooong time ago. It's much better now than it used to be... but still, for schematics, I only use it if I'm forced to. I much prefer products that 1) don't colorize the schematic 2) are quick... I mean really quick... when doing "just a drawing" 3) don't try to link PCB to Schematic
Sometimes... I just want a draw schematic quickly... like when I'm in IRC channel helping out or in a reply to a forum post.
I agree.. the library and parts choice is one of the most daunting tasks for myself.. (however.. I think alot of that is being so new to electronics in general or not knowing much about hardware in the first place) ;)..
I did find this (there is another one too but cant find the link)..
that is helpful when I am trying to track down a certain part in Eagle..
sometimes its right there, in front of my face, in the default libs in Eagle... but because the search function 'blows' in Eagle its hard to find stuff..
this search tool has helped me out several times find parts already there.. and/or leading me to external/3rd party libs for that elusive part.
The other thing that comes in handy is Newark.com.
Register/sign in, and quite often they have an eagle symbol for a part.
For example, I just downloaded symbols for REF195 (precision voltage reference), AD7680 (16-ibit ADC), and AD5662 (16-bit DAC), three MSOP package parts I thought for sure I was going to have to create myself.
The symbols are pretty basic, with the schematic symbol giving no indication of what the part actually does, but that can be edit-ed in later when I feel ambitious.
), non-round pad holes, routing holes within a board / panelizing, etc...