Forum issues tracker on GitHub

Forum issues are now publicly available for tracking on GitHub: arduino/forum-issues

You can see there existing issues which have been entered, and what progress is being made on them.

Please search for an existing issue similar to one you are concerned with, before opening a new issue, because a lot of virtually identical issues will just slow down their ability to respond to them.

To add issues (or comment on them) you will need a GitHub account (this is free).

+1

This is a big step in the right direction.

Although the text from the basecamp entries should be brought over

I am converting all basecamp entries in github issues directly. I need some time. Nothing should be obscure other than live security issues.

I fully accept that Github is "flavour of the month" with programming folks so I have no intention of arguing that the tracker should be elsewhere.

I like very much that we can see th Github list - that is a huge step forward.

However I would also prefer that, in general, issues are raised here in the Website section of the Forum in the first instance and then probably added to the Github list by one of the background team or by an administrator. I don't see any need for "ordinary folks" like me to input stuff to the Github list.

There are a few associated reasons for this.

I want to see the background team take a genuine and routine interest in this section of the Forum. If they do that they will easily pick up issues that need to be added to the Github list.

The Forum provides an opportunity to discuss issues before they get put on the list. And I want the background team to participate in those discussions. The Forum also provides a space to discuss decisions about the priority of things on the list.

I don't want to see Github become the Forum about the Forum. One Forum is plenty.

Normally there are not many posts in this section of the Forum so what I am asking is not very onerous.

...R

Github is very useful to have a clear list of issues and organize them. It is very useful for developer and they are already used to it.

I agree on discussing issues here, than we can move them to Github once they are completely defined.

Robin2:
I don't want to see Github become the Forum about the Forum. One Forum is plenty.

Yes, but it isn't a forum. It is, or should be, a place where clearly-defined problems, or suggestions, are posted, with supporting documentation (eg. links, screenshots). It is not a place for asking questions, seeking guidance, telling jokes, or anything like that.

I have been posting quite a few issues recently, that I either personally detected, or that I spotted someone else talking about. GitHub is a formal place for such things to be placed, and then someone is assigned (not be me, I don't have that power) to deal with it. Once it is dealt with a commit should be raised, and the problem fixed.

Forum threads, but their nature, can tend to waffle, and it can be hard for a developer, who is working to a tight schedule, and who is under pressure, to work their way through multiple threads to try to find out what is wrong, if indeed anything is, and the best fix for it. And whether a particular problem is high priority or not.

Just as an example, and I don’t want to get into details, some issues I raised (and I wasn’t the only one) don’t have anyone assigned to them yet. This level of detail is not available on the forum (whether someone is working on something) and it is helpful to see how issues are being progressed.

Looking at some of the commit diffs on GitHub, it is clear that what may seem to us to be a simple problem, can involve hundreds of lines of PHP code to implement. And prior to formal implementation, to test.

I am personally pleased that there is an element of formality to this, because I think this concentrates the developers’ minds onto working in sequence through problems, in priority order.

[quote author=Nick Gammon date=1414822557 link=msg=1944004]
Just as an example, and I don't want to get into details, some issues I raised (and I wasn't the only one) don't have anyone assigned to them yet. This level of detail is not available on the forum (whether someone is working on something) and it is helpful to see how issues are being progressed.[/quote]
Sorry if I wasn't clear - and maybe I also confused @Mastrolinux.

Yes Github should be used by the team to manage the issues - as @Mastrolinux says "they are already used to it." I thought I had acknowledged that in the first sentence of Reply #4.

All I am trying to say is that the Forum is the place where ordinary users should raise issues and where the team should expect to find them. And where they should report completion of issues. I am quite happy if things only get onto Github after they have been assessed by a more "senior" person - and admin, or a member of the team..

What I do like is being able to view the Github list - but I have no wish to be able to add to it, or modify it, or comment directly in Github. This Forum is the place for comments.

...R

[quote author=Nick Gammon date=1414822557 link=msg=1944004]
Looking at some of the commit diffs on GitHub, it is clear that what may seem to us to be a simple problem, can involve hundreds of lines of PHP code to implement. [/quote]

I have responded to this separately because I am flabbergasted.

I though the Arduino folk acquired/bought the SMF forum software and clicked a few option boxes to set it running. Maybe added a couple of stylesheets to get the colours correctly.

Why on earth are they using something that needs that level of additional programming?

if the problems we have been experiencing have arisen because someone got a working system and then decided to FIX it I have even less sympathy than I had previously.

...R

All I am trying to say is that the Forum is the place where ordinary users should raise issues and where the team should expect to find them

Ordinary people can easily add issues to github and comment
Creating an account is trivial

It is much easier for the admins to keep track of it like that. I have already posted several issues to Hoggin and they have been commented/addressed promptly

smeezekitty:
Ordinary people can easily add issues to github and comment
Creating an account is trivial

In my view that is the problem - not the solution.

I don't like the idea that I have to read both this Forum and Github to see all the issues and the discussion about them. This potentially creates the same problem of double-posting that we routinely complain about in the Forum.

I would much prefer if the Github account was read-only for ordinary forum users like me.

...R

I would much prefer if the Github account was read-only for ordinary forum users like me.

It is read-only until you create an account. Even then, I think you need to specifically be added to some list to get write permission.

PaulS:
It is read-only until you create an account. Even then, I think you need to specifically be added to some list to get write permission.

I don't get that impression from reply #10

I would be quite happy if people need to be on a list and if the list is restricted to Admins and team members.

...R

Why so much griping?

This is basically how bug tracking works in almost every other open source program.

Github appears to be working fine. And yes anybody can write to it. The purpose
is to have community participation and bug reports

From my unpleasant experience on this forum I would say that posting ANYTHING even resembling a bug gets you the following reactions:

  1. What are you whining about when you get xxx for free?
  2. Do you have it documented?
  3. Post a full code and tell us what is your software for.
  4. You did not put you code in proper format so I cannot be bothered to read it.
  5. Your post gets moved to different forum and good luck finding it.
  6. Use “blink without delay”.

It is a complete waste of time to try to discuss anything more than “ I want to push a button to make LED blink “.

Issues pertaining to site format and IDE do not belong here. It should not be the job of administrators to decide which is a bug or not, they are here to police the format, not to solve ANY software issues.
The forum value is in the knowledge of participants, not in the keyboards of administrators.
They are not developers. Period.
Cheers Vaclav

Vaclav, we ask people to post all their code, so that we can see that they've correctly declared all the variables they reference - that they're of the correct type and are initialised. We can't see that sort of stuff from snippets.

We ask them to use code tags so that the forum software doesn't mangle things like subscripts into italics, obscuring the meaning of the code.

We ask them to "document" their problem, which is usually as simple as posting a link that their particular device or the original source of their code so that we can all be sure we're all singing from the same hymn sheet.

Really, it is in the poster's best interest to follow the very simple posting guidelines so that they will get the help they want as quickly as possible - this simple fact is one you seem to have considerable difficulty understanding, so that's why I'm explaining it to you. Again.

We ask people what their code is for so that we can offer advice about different ways of achieving what it is they want to do.

We ask people not to cross-post, simply because it is counter-productive, and reduces the likelihood that people will offer their time in the future.

Blink without delay - the answer to many first time questions here; you should read it, work through it and thoroughly understand it, it'll improve your understanding of simple micro controller programming no end.

We ask for people not to wade in on subjects they clearly have no knowledge of, like, say, PWM control of servos (aka "voodoo electronics"), so that they don't dilute the help of those who do know what they're talking about.

I can't speak for administrators, but I'm pretty sure the moderators would agree.

smeezekitty:
Why so much griping?

This is basically how bug tracking works in almost every other open source program.

Github appears to be working fine. And yes anybody can write to it. The purpose
is to have community participation and bug reports

I am well aware that Github is widely used. I have now said twice (at least) that I have no objection to its use by the Admins and the team.

What I do object to is the prospect that "community participation" moves from this Forum to Github - and more especially, the prospect that it will happen in both places at the same time and be an uncontrolled mess.

This Forum is the place for everyone - users, Admins and team - to discuss issues IMHO. Github should only be used as a tool for managing the implementation of changes.

...R

The forum is too difficult to manage for admins that need to keep track of the issues in a clear
and easily managed way.

smeezekitty:
The forum is too difficult to manage for admins that need to keep track of the issues in a clear
and easily managed way.

I agree completely. And I have no problem with them using Github for that purpose.

All I am saying is that the DISCUSSION of the issues should take place here in the Forum.

...R