got 2 propellers cheap... but should I keep or sell 'em?

Hi I'm new to the MC world. I have programmed in C, ObjC, Java, BASIC(+VB/REAL) and some php. Its been about 7 yrs since I last coded.(It was a hobby but I took a few university level classes...) At any rate I've been wanting to play with Arduino but money has been very very tight lately. I do plan to get a Uno R3 soon from eBay but today I picked up two Parallax Propellers on clearance from RadioShack @ $9.95ea. The 'SPIN' Language seems interesting and propeller chip seems very cool but the amount of begginer code seems thin compared to arduino... Especially if I want to do something like temp/moisture/humidity reading and water cntrl for a garden. Should I sell these or give'em a shot..... it is the dev brd w/ 8 rstv tch btns and 8 LEDS.....

Sorry for the brief post and inadequate example, I was busy doing Dad stuff at the time. I'd like to play with analog sensor I/O, especially with electronics recycled from old electronics, toys, computers and computer parts. I'm sure most of you here are Arduino fans and that's what I'd like to start with but should I keep one of the propellers considering the $9.95 price?

Boards (which one?), or chips?
Propellers are interesting chips, but pretty weird. Probably not for beginners, given the general difficulty of multi-core processing.
(I may have to visit my radioshack...)

Hey =) - I can't say anything about propellers since they are unknown to me but as an arduino beginner I must say that the ammount of help you can get on this platform is pretty amazing ... Take any module or component and there's a dozen tutorials for it, that's priceless..

I find the learning curve with electronics to be a complete bi**h since I'm starting from absolutely nothing (I keep on frying arduinos and transistors like there's no tomorrow - code is pretty easy and fun on the other hand) but at least with an arduino even though my budget is tight too (i'm a psychology student, miles away from electronics) I can afford my numerous mistakes - because if I fry a cheap "pro mini" It's only going to cost me around 1.5€ (to be fair I also fried a UNO that costed me 25€ to replace - it took a lot of abuse and survived before dying tho ... they are really well made lil' things, I just suck at electronics) and they are extremely good at what they do. Not sure if you can have the same level of "forgiveness" from propellers?

My fav cheapies so far:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10Pcs-Lot-Pro-Mini-Module-Atmega328-5V-16M-For-Arduino-Compatible-With-Nano/1432639609.html

Well all I can say is that I highly recommend buying an arduino UNO :3 (or even the starter kit if you can afford)

I do plan to get a Uno R3 soon from eBay but today I picked up two Parallax Propellers on clearance from RadioShack @ $9.95ea. The 'SPIN' Language seems interesting and propeller chip seems very cool but the amount of begginer code seems thin compared to arduino... Especially if I want to do something like temp/moisture/humidity reading and water cntrl for a garden. Should I sell these or give'em a shot..... it is the dev brd w/ 8 rstv tch btns and 8 LEDS.....

Seriously, SPIN is very powerful, but writing code for the multiple cores involves some serious understanding of program threading. Now, Parallax has done a fair job at managing the complexities. But, it is certainly not Arduino!

''*****************************************************
''*  MCP3202 12-bit/2-channel ADC Driver v1.0         *
''*  also provides up to two 32-bit sigma-delta DACs  *
''*  Author: Chip Gracey                              *
''*  Copyright (c) 2009 Parallax, Inc.                *
''*  See end of file for terms of use.                *
''*****************************************************
'' Revised by John Abshier (jabshier on Fourm) 23 Aug 2012
''      Added 5th parameter DACpins and moved dacmode into DACpins instead of count
''      Kuroneko added code to prevent startx from returning until initialization is complete
VAR

  long  cog

  long  ins             '5 contiguous longs (2 words + 1 long + 2 longs + 1 long)
  long  count
  long  dacx, dacy
  long  DACpins

PUB start(dpin, cpin, spin, mode) : okay

'' Start driver - starts a cog
'' returns false if no cog available
'' may be called again to change settings
''
''   dpin  = pin connected to both DIN and DOUT on MCP3202
''   cpin  = pin connected to CLK on MCP3202
''   spin  = pin connected to CS on MCP3202
''   mode  = channel enables in bits 0..1, diff mode enables in bits 2..3

  return startx(@dpin, 1)


PUB start1(dpin, cpin, spin, mode, xpin) : okay

'' Like start, but sets up 1 extra pin as a 32-bit sigma-delta DAC
''
''   xpin  = pin connected to RC filter for 'x' DAC
''
''   R and C values can be 1K and .1uF

  return startx(@dpin, xpin & $1F | $80)


PUB start2(dpin, cpin, spin, mode, xpin, ypin) : okay

'' Like start, but sets up 2 extra pins as 32-bit sigma-delta DACs
''
''   xpin  = pin connected to RC filter for 'x' DAC
''   ypin  = pin connected to RC filter for 'y' DAC
''
''   R and C values can be 1K and .1uF

  return startx(@dpin, (ypin & $1F | $80) << 8 + xpin & $1F | $80)


PRI startx(ptr, dacmode) : okay

  stop
  longmove(@ins, ptr, 4)
  DACpins := dacmode
  if cog := cognew(@entry, @ins) + 1
    repeat while DACpins           ' wait for cog to run initialization code
  return cog

PUB stop

'' Stop driver - frees a cog

  if cog
    cogstop(cog~ - 1)


PUB in(channel) : sample

'' Read the current sample from an ADC channel (0..1)

  return ins.word[channel]


PUB average(channel, n) : sample | c

'' Average n samples from an ADC channel (0..1)

  c := count
  repeat n
    repeat while c == count
    sample += ins.word[channel]
    c++
  sample /= n


PUB out(x, y)

'' Update DACs with 32-bit values

  dacx := x
  dacy := y

PUB outPercent(x, y)

'' Update DACs with 32-bit values
'' Inputs are percent high time 0 to 100
  x := 0 #> x  <# 100                                   ' limit to 0 to 100 percent
  y := 0 #> y  <# 100
  dacx := x * 42_949_672
  dacy := y * 42_949_672 

DAT

'************************************
'* Assembly language MCP3202 driver *
'************************************

                        org
'
'
' Entry
'
entry                   mov     t1,par                  'read parameters

                        call    #param                  'setup DIN/DOUT pin
                        mov     dmask,t2

                        call    #param                  'setup CLK pin
                        mov     cmask,t2

                        call    #param                  'setup CS pin
                        mov     smask,t2

                        call    #param                  'set mode
                        mov     enables,t3

                        call    #param                  'setup DAC configuration
        if_c            or      dira,t2
        if_c            movs    ctra,t3
        if_c            movi    ctra,#%00110_000

                        shr     t3,#8
                        call    #param2
        if_c            or      dira,t2
        if_c            movs    ctrb,t3
        if_c            movi    ctrb,#%00110_000      

'
'
' Perform conversions continuously
'
                        or      dira,cmask              'output CLK
                        or      dira,smask              'output CS

main_loop               mov     command,#%1001          'init command (start + msbf)
                        mov     t1,par                  'reset sample pointer
                        mov     t2,enables              'get enables
                        mov     t3,#2                   'ready 2 channels

cloop                   shr     t2,#1           wc      'if channel disabled, skip
        if_nc           jmp     #skip

                        test    t2,#2           wc      'channel enabled, get single/diff mode
                        muxnc   command,#%0100
                        mov     stream,command

                        or      outa,smask              'CS high
                        or      dira,dmask              'make DIN/DOUT output
                        mov     bits,#18                'ready 18 bits (cs+1+diff+ch+1+0+data[12])

bloop                   test    stream,#%10000  wc      'update DIN/DOUT
                        muxc    outa,dmask

                        cmp     bits,#13        wz      'if command done, input DIN/DOUT
        if_z            andn    dira,dmask

                        andn    outa,cmask              'CLK low
                        mov     t4,par                  'update DACs between clock transitions
                        add     t4,#8
                        rdlong  frqa,t4
                        add     t4,#4
                        rdlong  frqb,t4                
                        or      outa,cmask              'CLK high

                        test    dmask,ina       wc      'sample DIN/DOUT
                        rcl     stream,#1

                        andn    outa,smask              'CS low

                        djnz    bits,#bloop             'next data bit


                        and     stream,mask12           'trim and write sample
                        wrword  stream,t1

skip                    add     t1,#2                   'advance sample pointer
                        or      command,#%0010          'advance command
                        djnz    t3,#cloop               'more channels?

                        wrlong  counter,t1              'channels done, update counter
                        add     counter,#1

                        jmp     #main_loop              'perform conversions again
'
'
' Get parameter
'
param                   rdlong  t3,t1                   'get parameter into t3
                        wrlong  par,t1                  'acknowledge parameter
                        add     t1,#4                   'point to next parameter

param2                  mov     t2,#1                   'make pin mask in t2
                        shl     t2,t3

                        test    t3,#$80         wc      'get DAC flag into c
param2_ret
param_ret               ret
'
'
' Initialized data
'
mask12                  long    $FFF
'
'
' Uninitialized data
'
t1                      res     1
t2                      res     1
t3                      res     1
t4                      res     1
dmask                   res     1
cmask                   res     1
smask                   res     1
enables                 res     1
command                 res     1
stream                  res     1
bits                    res     1
counter                 res     1

westfw:
Boards (which one?), or chips?
Propellers are interesting chips, but pretty weird. Probably not for beginners, given the general difficulty of multi-core processing.
(I may have to visit my radioshack...)

The P8X32A QuickStart board... Their weirdness is what drew me to them(the low price did help though!) I like the idea of multiple simultaneous threads but there doesn't appear to be anywhere as much sample code by comparison...

mrburnette:

I do plan to get a Uno R3 soon from eBay but today I picked up two Parallax Propellers on clearance from RadioShack @ $9.95ea. The 'SPIN' Language seems interesting and propeller chip seems very cool but the amount of begginer code seems thin compared to arduino... Especially if I want to do something like temp/moisture/humidity reading and water cntrl for a garden. Should I sell these or give'em a shot..... it is the dev brd w/ 8 rstv tch btns and 8 LEDS.....

Seriously, SPIN is very powerful, but writing code for the multiple cores involves some serious understanding of program threading. Now, Parallax has done a fair job at managing the complexities. But, it is certainly not Arduino!

''*****************************************************

''*  MCP3202 12-bit/2-channel ADC Driver v1.0         *
''*  also provides up to two 32-bit sigma-delta DACs  *
''*  Author: Chip Gracey                              *
''*  Copyright (c) 2009 Parallax, Inc.                *
''*  See end of file for terms of use.                *
''*****************************************************
'' Revised by John Abshier (jabshier on Fourm) 23 Aug 2012
''      Added 5th parameter DACpins and moved dacmode into DACpins instead of count
''      Kuroneko added code to prevent startx from returning until initialization is complete
VAR

long  cog

long  ins             '5 contiguous longs (2 words + 1 long + 2 longs + 1 long)
 long  count
 long  dacx, dacy
 long  DACpins

PUB start(dpin, cpin, spin, mode) : okay

'' Start driver - starts a cog
'' returns false if no cog available
'' may be called again to change settings
''
''   dpin  = pin connected to both DIN and DOUT on MCP3202
''   cpin  = pin connected to CLK on MCP3202
''   spin  = pin connected to CS on MCP3202
''   mode  = channel enables in bits 0..1, diff mode enables in bits 2..3

return startx(@dpin, 1)

PUB start1(dpin, cpin, spin, mode, xpin) : okay

'' Like start, but sets up 1 extra pin as a 32-bit sigma-delta DAC
''
''   xpin  = pin connected to RC filter for 'x' DAC
''
''   R and C values can be 1K and .1uF

return startx(@dpin, xpin & $1F | $80)

PUB start2(dpin, cpin, spin, mode, xpin, ypin) : okay

'' Like start, but sets up 2 extra pins as 32-bit sigma-delta DACs
''
''   xpin  = pin connected to RC filter for 'x' DAC
''   ypin  = pin connected to RC filter for 'y' DAC
''
''   R and C values can be 1K and .1uF

return startx(@dpin, (ypin & $1F | $80) << 8 + xpin & $1F | $80)

PRI startx(ptr, dacmode) : okay

stop
 longmove(@ins, ptr, 4)
 DACpins := dacmode
 if cog := cognew(@entry, @ins) + 1
   repeat while DACpins           ' wait for cog to run initialization code
 return cog

PUB stop

'' Stop driver - frees a cog

if cog
   cogstop(cog~ - 1)

PUB in(channel) : sample

'' Read the current sample from an ADC channel (0..1)

return ins.word[channel]

PUB average(channel, n) : sample | c

'' Average n samples from an ADC channel (0..1)

c := count
 repeat n
   repeat while c == count
   sample += ins.word[channel]
   c++
 sample /= n

PUB out(x, y)

'' Update DACs with 32-bit values

dacx := x
 dacy := y

PUB outPercent(x, y)

'' Update DACs with 32-bit values
'' Inputs are percent high time 0 to 100
 x := 0 #> x  <# 100                                   ' limit to 0 to 100 percent
 y := 0 #> y  <# 100
 dacx := x * 42_949_672
 dacy := y * 42_949_672

DAT

'************************************
'* Assembly language MCP3202 driver *
'************************************

org
'
'
' Entry
'
entry                   mov     t1,par                  'read parameters

call    #param                  'setup DIN/DOUT pin
                       mov     dmask,t2

call    #param                  'setup CLK pin
                       mov     cmask,t2

call    #param                  'setup CS pin
                       mov     smask,t2

call    #param                  'set mode
                       mov     enables,t3

call    #param                  'setup DAC configuration
       if_c            or      dira,t2
       if_c            movs    ctra,t3
       if_c            movi    ctra,#%00110_000

shr     t3,#8
                       call    #param2
       if_c            or      dira,t2
       if_c            movs    ctrb,t3
       if_c            movi    ctrb,#%00110_000

'
'
' Perform conversions continuously
'
                       or      dira,cmask              'output CLK
                       or      dira,smask              'output CS

main_loop               mov     command,#%1001          'init command (start + msbf)
                       mov     t1,par                  'reset sample pointer
                       mov     t2,enables              'get enables
                       mov     t3,#2                   'ready 2 channels

cloop                   shr     t2,#1           wc      'if channel disabled, skip
       if_nc           jmp     #skip

test    t2,#2           wc      'channel enabled, get single/diff mode
                       muxnc   command,#%0100
                       mov     stream,command

or      outa,smask              'CS high
                       or      dira,dmask              'make DIN/DOUT output
                       mov     bits,#18                'ready 18 bits (cs+1+diff+ch+1+0+data[12])

bloop                   test    stream,#%10000  wc      'update DIN/DOUT
                       muxc    outa,dmask

cmp     bits,#13        wz      'if command done, input DIN/DOUT
       if_z            andn    dira,dmask

andn    outa,cmask              'CLK low
                       mov     t4,par                  'update DACs between clock transitions
                       add     t4,#8
                       rdlong  frqa,t4
                       add     t4,#4
                       rdlong  frqb,t4                
                       or      outa,cmask              'CLK high

test    dmask,ina       wc      'sample DIN/DOUT
                       rcl     stream,#1

andn    outa,smask              'CS low

djnz    bits,#bloop             'next data bit

and     stream,mask12           'trim and write sample
                       wrword  stream,t1

skip                    add     t1,#2                   'advance sample pointer
                       or      command,#%0010          'advance command
                       djnz    t3,#cloop               'more channels?

wrlong  counter,t1              'channels done, update counter
                       add     counter,#1

jmp     #main_loop              'perform conversions again
'
'
' Get parameter
'
param                   rdlong  t3,t1                   'get parameter into t3
                       wrlong  par,t1                  'acknowledge parameter
                       add     t1,#4                   'point to next parameter

param2                  mov     t2,#1                   'make pin mask in t2
                       shl     t2,t3

test    t3,#$80         wc      'get DAC flag into c
param2_ret
param_ret               ret
'
'
' Initialized data
'
mask12                  long    $FFF
'
'
' Uninitialized data
'
t1                      res     1
t2                      res     1
t3                      res     1
t4                      res     1
dmask                   res     1
cmask                   res     1
smask                   res     1
enables                 res     1
command                 res     1
stream                  res     1
bits                    res     1
counter                 res     1

That's what I figured... maybe I'll hang onto one for the future. SPIN doesn't seem too difficult once I get back into the groove of things, but as I said its been a while. On another note I've read that 12Block is a really easy beginners tool. Also I've read a little bit about Catalina and a GCC tool chain for the prop...

pixelsafoison:
Hey =) - I can't say anything about propellers since they are unknown to me but as an arduino beginner I must say that the ammount of help you can get on this platform is pretty amazing ... Take any module or component and there's a dozen tutorials for it, that's priceless..

I find the learning curve with electronics to be a complete bi**h since I'm starting from absolutely nothing (I keep on frying arduinos and transistors like there's no tomorrow - code is pretty easy and fun on the other hand) but at least with an arduino even though my budget is tight too (i'm a psychology student, miles away from electronics) I can afford my numerous mistakes - because if I fry a cheap "pro mini" It's only going to cost me around 1.5€ (to be fair I also fried a UNO that costed me 25€ to replace - it took a lot of abuse and survived before dying tho ... they are really well made lil' things, I just suck at electronics) and they are extremely good at what they do. Not sure if you can have the same level of "forgiveness" from propellers?

My fav cheapies so far:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10Pcs-Lot-Pro-Mini-Module-Atmega328-5V-16M-For-Arduino-Compatible-With-Nano/1432639609.html

Well all I can say is that I highly recommend buying an arduino UNO :3 (or even the starter kit if you can afford)

Thanks for the reply. I'll probably be getting one of the starter kits on eBay so I have some sensors and input devices to play with. Also, thanks for the link. I'll check it out. Good luck not killing your electronics BTW!

In short, you do not want only one of whatever device you have (and for that matter, not just two), so unless you can sell both to someone who seriously needs them, keep them but they are seriously high-performance devices suited to more complex tasks. For simple experimentation with sensors and such, the Arduino (Pro Mini/ Micro/ UNO) is more suitable.

The Propellers are useful for things such as Web servers - which you could do with a UNO - "sort of". And the important thing is of course, that you have them on a board, as the chip on its own is not very easy to use.

Paul - thanks for the reply. As I've been doing some more research I've been able to find some very interesting projects on DangerousPrototypes(.com). One of which is a light implementation of the Arduino SDK(From what I gather an Object for the Propeller IDE that allows for Arduino-like syntax for basic I/O tasks) as well as a number of other interesting projects and references. I [should] probably start with Arduino, as I had planned to but I don't have an Arduino. I have 2 Propellers. I've also seen some interesting stuff about interfacing Arduino with Propeller. The cool thing about the QuickStart board is that their are 8 resistive buttons and 8 LEDs but also access to all 32 pins. I guess I'll give the propeller a shot, if it proves too complicated I can always get an Arduino and hang onto it for later.