Guitar Pickup Winding Machine

Using Arduino Project Guidance
1

Hey guys, a few years back (2019) I had a post looking for guidance on a guitar pickup winding machine... not much help sadly apart from good luck, should be do-able, etc....

Started looking into it again, especially now that I have been learning Fusion360 and have a desktop CNC and a 3D Printer.

From what I am gathering, I would need an Arduino board, a CNC controller shield, 2 Nema 23 stepper motors (one to spin the bobbin, and one to guide the wire) and I guess an LCD. Plus guides, lead screw, and some manner of sensor to detect rotations.

I think designing something in Fusion360 may take a while (since I'm still learning) but very doable.

My question(s) are...

  1. How do I know which Arduino and CNC controllers I should get?
  2. Would a Nema 23 work for spinning the bobbin? I think I read it goes up to around 900rpm which I think should work.
  3. Software... I have an idea for what I want, but, is programming Arduino difficult?

Software I think would be the hardest part of the whole build. I'd like to have a lot of behind-the-scenes maths happening, so I could tell it wire gauge, desired output strength of pickup and it will calculate the number of rotations. I'd also like to have maybe 3 winding patterns as well.

Anyone able to help get me started at least? Which board to get... maybe LCD to get? doesn't have to be a touch screen... I could use up/down buttons and start, stop, pause, cancel and I guess next.

2

My feeling is that you’re approaching this the wrong way around…

Design, prototype and finalise the mechanical part of the project. Make it work with your fingers and eyes to create the ‘perfect’ pickup.

Only then do you know what you need to achieve, and the requirements to achieve that.

The essence is that you’re developing a pickup winder - not a computer'

The motors and control are relatively simple once you have a reliable, repeatable mechanism.

You won’t know until the hardware works, what sort of motors, gearing, torque or range is needed.

The only concession I’d make, is to design your hardware with enough brackets, tongues etc to support whatever drive mechanism and attachments you choose in phase II of the development.

3

That sounds like you're doing it the same way around that I am...? Design something that will work physically, then design software to automate it.

That's what I'm aiming for, but looking for some advice because no point in designing a base that will hold an UNO, if I need a difference board. Or design a bracket and buy a Nema 23 if there is no way to make it work.

I'm certain it can work, I have seen a few YouTube vids about it, but, I'm also certain that some hardware will work and some may not, which is what I'm trying to sort out.

Sadly, YouTube vids never get into programming, potential issues, and they never seem to respond back to questions.

I'd love to be able to design a 3D printable base, have a list of exactly what parts are needed and have code available to share with people.

4

Hello THRobinson
My recommendation:
Start and design blockdiagram to identify all needed hardware components and their interfaces before start with coding.

Have a nice day and enjoy coding in C++.
Дайте миру шанс!

p.s. I´m using Fusion360, too

5

That's where I'm currently seeking feedback for... which hardware would work best.

No point designing it, buying the hardware, then finding out it won't work because I should have bought other hardware.

For example... there are a bunch of Arduino's out there... Uno, Nano, etc.... do I design using the biggest one? or is that overkill?

CNC controller... they all the same? are some brands better? more compatible?

Again... I know what hardware I need, I'm just seeking some guidance towards which models and brands will work. I've seen Arduino "compatible" boards on Amazon with comments ranging from great to doesn't work and not compatible. Figured people on an Arduino forum might have some insight.

6

The choice of Arduino is almost completely application dependant.

I'm pretty sure most of the people here don't wind pickups. So you can't expect much advice about how to construct a good mechanical device. The best approach, would be to sketch out a reasonably accurate mech design, with the help of some advice from people who do wind pickups. Also map out the exact specifications and behaviour in different modes of operation.

Post all that stuff, and people here will be in a better position to offer specific guidance about the Arduino hardware and software that you could use.

It is because you didn't do this, that you didn't get much help in 2019.

7

Seems kinda backwards to me... Design something with no advice on hardware, then get advice on the hardware. :smiley:

I've seen a lot of YouTube vids for winding machines... some pickups, others I have no idea what they're for. Plus, although not many people winding pickups, I'm certain many people are using CNC controllers for CNC machines, 3D printers, and other things. That's what I'm getting at... which board(s) would you use for CNC type projects and screen.

Best one I saw but, no response from the guy about software or anything, was this video. Looks good though I've seen a few using a Nema stepper for the winding motor instead of a manually controlled motor with pulley. Where I got lost was he had an UNO, a motor speed controller... but also some sorta self made board. I assume it's easier to get a CNC controller and only use 2 of the 4 controllers?

LINK

Another was this one.... it used the CNC shield and a pair of NEMA steppers which is I think how I want to go.

LINK

8

The hardware part is not that important, because the existing CNC software expects conventional XY platforms and such arrangements, not special cases like a coil winder. So you'd have an equal or worse time using that compared with writing it from scratch. Then, the task is so simple that any Arduino could do it. Then, it boils down to which stepper motors and sensors you want to use. Then, you need to know about automated coil winding hardware. Then, you should check on a winder's forum. :slight_smile: That is my logic.

A "CNC shield" or whatever, only groups stepper driver and sensor interfaces in one component, it may or may not be the most convenient for you. It probably won't help you with software because the software for it is not general purpose, as I explain above.

It's doubtful that common CNC software would readily adapt to your task, e.g. implement winding via CNC commands in a CNC oriented command language. More likely, you will have to write the software yourself.

If you got lost when you saw a home made board, it's not a good sign. But at least the links show you some examples of the mechanical implementation.

What is your level of hardware and software design experience?

It's just hard to advise on appropriate hardware for a system that hasn't been fully described.

You should also do a forum search (upper right text box) because this project has definitely been mentioned here before...

9

Ah, see it's info like this that I am after... because my "level" is absolute 0.

I have made a few Arcade systems using Raspberry Pi's, and that's it!

I'm unclear about what you mean... not trying to be difficult, just, not sure what all needs to be described... hardware has been mentioned a few times and 2 video examples... what I need it to do has been briefly described.

Would a basic hand drawn sketch be a good start point maybe? With a list of what parts I "think" I need?

I did... 1 started off where he made his own standalone Arduino board, then vanished... few posts after asking how it turned out and no response. A few other posts the same as mine asking for help but getting told to search the forum for other examples. :smiley: Oh the irony. :slight_smile:

10

Yes, it would be a great start. Many people here don't have time to sit and watch videos. Like me. But you will be expected to write your own code here. So if your experience is zero, that will be a problem for you. Can you not simply duplicate the projects that you linked to? Is there something wrong with them?

I think what you mentioned about posts, is not so much ironic, as a result of the topic being extremely rare. Thus most people don't know anything about it, and don't comment.

Or else, perhaps the posters were not specific enough about what they need.

Perhaps the one that "vanished" got what they needed, and kept quiet after that because they wanted to keep it exclusive, maybe commercialize it. Just one possibility of many. Lots of threads just die with no obvious reason.

While you are posting your drawing(s), consider also describing how the device must operate in detail... what actions and modes of operation are required, and constraints.

11

Do you think all things are designed on paper before anyone ever tests something to see if it works? You are going to spend all your time paper engineering.

12

Do you think people start with a physical prototype without starting with plan first? You are going to waste a lot of time and money on stuff that doesn't work and parts you can't use.

13

this is pretty straight forward.

the motor is going to depend on the precision of the two shaft encoders.

ok before i go there >> now ill use the opions are like __ everyone has one .. if this was my project (as it once was long ago making pulse engine coils) i would do the following

have a motor that runs a mandrel that is monitored by an encoder, the more precise the encoder the more accurate your coils will be wound.

a second motor runs a ball screw, the nicer the better, the ball screw acts on a linear rail that has the eyelet , that guides the wire, i like teflon or brass for the eyelet, i once made them interchangeable depending on the wire gauge required. this ball screw has an encoder on it too, it also uses an optical stop that it can run into that indicates home

then your not going to want to do a shield , its over kill and makes any project just fit to a specific task you would like to perform. i would start on a bunch of bread boards buy stepper motor drivers and if you are going to do a text based tft you are going to want a 4x20 ... i would look into using the board from here or here if youa re going to make a full stand alone interface...

if your hell bent on using a kit for the electronics id use this one it has everything you need minus the flag stop and the motors and the encoders . its also well documented but i think the pinout part is still gonna be confusing if you are tuely at level 0

for the first iteration id use a geared stepper like this for three reasons . the gear box makes them way more accurate hardware so your code can be sloppier and still get great results, you have more pulling and pushing force for larger wire diameters and three they are just way cooler.

if you are also at level xero i will have you know this project can be done alot easier with these and a nano

these are good encoders you will need a level translator to use them correctly with arduino

this is a suitable linear bearing and slide

this for the chuck where you place your forming bobbin or steel rod the size of your magnet you use one of those spiral spring couplers to place it on the gearbox of the stepper motor

these are your threaded rods

these are your flag stops, it is also handy to have one on the bobbin winder but its an accessory, not really needed

14

Well, my design is basically half the one video, half the other. But neither touch software really.

As mentioned in my OP... based on the vids... I think i need an Arduino to run it all, a Nema stepper with a lead screw and a pair of guides to guide the wire. Another Nema to spin the Bobbin that the wire will wrap on to. A sensor to detect rotation which I guess needs divided by 2 to be a full rotation. Because controlling the speed and rotation of one stepper and traverse of the other, I'd have thought a cnc shield... Like my 3018pro cnc with traverse and spindle speed. I'd want an lcd screen or led display for input. Input would be wire type / gauge, desired output level and it would calculate the number of rotate needed (saw the math somewhere, just need to find it again) plus override if I want to specify a number of turns. Plus a small selection of wind patterns for the traverse... Like just an even back and forth, or slow/fast back/forth, maybe zigzag etc. Probably one of those numeric pads I see in the Arduino kits, few small buttons for start/stop, pause, cancel. Speed control up/down buttons.

I'll try to draw something that makes (hopefully) sense...

15

tis be easier from your stand poi t to just use an encoder wheel input for all functions of human interface.

16

I was looking at hall effect sensors... seems to be a lot of vids of those being used with Arduino and seem cheap as well. Is that what you mean by encoder wheel input?

17

Ah, that's what I'm after....

I saw a small/short kit on Amazon, probably similar on eBay or Alibaba (if I want to wait 2 months for it to not show up) that had the guides and lead screw that I was thinking of using on a Nema17

Linear Motion Kit

This would be for the wire guide that travels left/right horizontally. Bobbins are only 12.5mm wide so the travel distance for that stepper is very very short.

The motor spinning the bobbin, I don't need crazy amounts of speed. I think I saw 600rpm for a Nema17, also another speed, not sure what it meant

Maximum Speed (w/1063 Motor Controller)|600 RPM|
Maximum Motor Speed|4688 RPM|

So... with a controller it's max speed is almost 8x slower than without?

Average Strat pickup I think has about 8000 winds, so @ 600rpm I guess 13-14min a pickup... bit slow but not in a rush.

The flag stops you mentioned, I see one person using for a rotation counter, also see people using a hall sensor, and some an iR sensor... not sure which is more accurate.

Kit wise... I was gonna buy a kit to learn with and hopefully use the parts towards this project. CNC shield wise, if I can do this without an extra board with controllers plugged in, I'm all for it... I just figured that since I'm using motors like on my CNC, the guide is acting like my X-axis and the bobbin winder like my spindle... well, figured use the same parts as a CNC. Plus again, saw a few vids where the people who didn't build their own boards used CNC shields. Again... not married to the idea. :smiley:

18

look here for how the gui or"control interface could work ... simpple 2 parts no key pad if done right they are pretty great its how most 3d printers work.

1 Like
19

2 rails and a screw is gonna be more complicated than a linear rail.
with the two rails you need to consider parallelism and its harder than you think it can cause the 12.5 mm travel to hang up also the more parts you use the more you have to maintain.

the mg rail is some great stuff.

if you went this far you could build it all onto the maker beam

as far as other frame designs if you have a 3d printer.

20

a flag stop goes primarily on the wire guide to determine it is in its "home "posistion, you do this on the mandrel so that you have the core hole from the mandrel in the same spot when you wind a new bobbin.

i would not use low res opto slot modules to determine rotation i would use a real encoder like i linked because when it comes to picking up the analog vibrations froma guitar you need positional accuracy. the ones i linked produce 2000 pulses per rotation thats a resolution of 0.18 degrees.

the little controller modules are tricky at times , but the tb6600 is fool proof with comon sense also they will run almost any size stepper so if you havent decided its more universal if you will

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjqgsjX1vn3AhX7j4kEHZzWDnoQwqsBegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFggSRQqB_a4&usg=AOvVaw1u9r_PPlytyJvkrkZwrT94