Help generating a waveform...

Hello,

My latest project is an attempt to reverse engineer the AlphaStim CES tACS device from it's patent information. I'm only really interested in the anxiety/depression/I settings, I'm hoping it might help with my ADHD and anxiety. At any rate I've gotten ahold of the waveform listed in the patent application and a friend of mine was able to help me work out the timing. I'll post both below along with a link to the patent itself.

It would likely be quite a bit easier to just hook up an AS to my scope, unfortunately I don't have an AS to test.

I think I might be able to pull this off with a nano, maybe. I'll probably end up trying use an esp8266. What I need to accomplish is pulsing said waveform at .5Hz, 1.5Hz or 100Hz. I'm planning on using an MCU, some caps, an NPN, an opamp and transformer.

I haven't yet made a schematic and I still need to find the proper transformer. Unfortunately the waveform from the patent time/mA. I believe that peak voltages are ≈2V/-2V.

Any input would be very helpful.

Patent link:

Thanks

The waveform shown in the first figure and in the patent application is not repetitive, and has no well defined frequency.

The figured waveform is also completely inconsistent with statements in the patent application regarding frequencies of 0.5, 1.5 or 100 Hz.

Obviously, the patent application is not a reliable guide.

You can't generate "waveforms" with a regular Arduino because there is no DAC. (Analog can be "simulated" under some conditions with PWM for motor speed control or LED dimming.)

A transformer is going to make it harder...

If the DAC can't put-out negative voltages, you can bias the DAC output then you can either use a summing amplifier to sum-in a negative voltage, or in the case of AC signals (where you don't have to "hold" positive or negative signals) you can use an RC high-pass filter. The DC bias is zero-Hz, and a high-pass filter will remove it. A capacitor is often used on audio outputs to remove the bias.

I believe that peak voltages are ≈2V/-2V.

It's hard for me to believe that such a low voltage will do anything. (But, I'm not a doctor or a biologist.) Anything over 50V is generally considered dangerous by the regulatory agencies. But it's not the voltage that's directly dangerous, it's the resulting current. (I assume you are familiar with Ohm's Law?)

Yes, I'm familiar with Ohms law. It may actually be around 50V for this device, I might have mistakenly referenced the output voltage of another(I've been looking at ALOT of different CES schematics...)

I was thinking of going the PWM route with this, maybe that's not the best option but I've got almost everything that I need minus the transformer. I was hoping to use what I had on hand.

I'll probably need to get ahold of a DAC to do the job. Also, why would a small transformer make things more difficult? I have to go from DC to AC, do I not?

The idea, I think, is to pulse this particular waveform .5x/sec, 1.5x/sec or 100x/sec.

"The MET device is a precision technology which generates a modified square, bipolar waveform of 0.5, 1.5, or 100 pulses per second (Hz), at 50 to 600 microamperes (1 μA is one-millionth of an ampere), in a 50% duty cycle."

Perhaps I'm missing something, as usual, but can't the aforementioned waveform be sped up or slowed down to allow for pulsing at the above frequencies?

The idea, I think, is to pulse this particular waveform .5x/sec, 1.5x/sec or 100x/sec.

Utterly impossible, because the pictured waveform takes up 10 seconds.

The information in the patent application is complete nonsense.

The timing can't be sped up? I'm pretty sure that is utterly possible.

I'll grant you this, the patent information is intentionally obfuscated.

That doesn't mean it can't be reverse engineered to an extent, even as an educational exercise.

You could use a Due. It has real DACs.

Maybe an STM32? I'm cheap...

nothingClever:
Maybe an STM32? I'm cheap...

That is a plan.

That doesn't mean it can't be reverse engineered to an extent

You are just kidding yourself, looking at an "intentionally obfuscated" patent application.

Buy the device and use a scope to figure out what it really does. I'll bet the details don't matter, though.

jremington:
You are just kidding yourself, looking at an "intentionally obfuscated" patent application.

Buy the device and use a scope to figure out what it really does. I'll bet the details don't matter, though.

Any reason for what seems to be an overly confrontational tone? You do realize that people are here to learn, right?

Also, I believe I had mentioned that the ideal solution would be to buy the device and hook it up to the scope. If I wanted to spend the time convincing my doctor of it's efficacy so that he might prescribe it and also spend the $700 O would have done so already. I'm not trying to reverse engineer the damned thing so I can sell a cheap Chinese knock off, I'm trying to do so to: A - learn, and B - save some money and a possible headache with my doc.

To your last point: yes, the details do indeed matter. Just because the patent shows a waveform over 10 seconds does not mean that the timing can't be modified. Yes, it is intentionally vague. Just because that's so doesn't mean that there isn't enough data available to extrapolate a solution.

Question: Why do you contribute to threads is all you're going to do is arrogantly sit up on your high horse and make assumptions? Is it to reinforce your feelings of intellectual superiority?

This used to be a resource where people could throw an idea out there and actually get a constructive response. It mostly still is. Thanks for your input though...

Has it ever occurred to you that this device is totally bogus and does not actually work, and that the patent is a veneer of respectability to be exploited in advertising? Some people think if a device has got a patent then it must have been tested and proved to be effective. Where as it shows no such thing.

The fact that the detailed in the patent don't add up should tip you the wink on this.

By all means try something like this if you want, but as people have pointed out you will never be able to reproduce what is in the patent because it is self contradictory and bogus.

I am saying this despite the fact that I hold some patents myself, so I know what you have to do to get one.

I spent 5 minutes Googling and found source papers with much more base information - more than enough to build with, assuming that you know how to build electronics. Which of course you should, if you are going to build an un-certified device with electrodes attached to your earlobes. :slight_smile:

Any reason for what seems to be an overly confrontational tone?

The device is completely bogus, proved by the utter nonsense in the patent application. Ask yourself why it should cost $700.

Suppose that some of the critical details have indeed been omitted or obfuscated in the patent application, and you build one, only to discover that it doesn't have any detectable health benefit. Which of the details is to blame?

These and similar quack devices, like TENS units, have been around for decades, and most medical insurance companies won't pay for them, because they are no more effective than placebos. This technical forum is no place to lend them respectability.

That said, about 25% of people do get relief through the placebo effect, no matter what the treatment, so ask your doctor what's best for you.

Grumpy_Mike:
Has it ever occurred to you that this device is totally bogus and does not actually work, and that the patent is a veneer of respectability to be exploited in advertising? Some people think if a device has got a patent then it must have been tested and proved to be effective. Where as it shows no such thing.

The fact that the detailed in the patent don't add up should tip you the wink on this.

By all means try something like this if you want, but as people have pointed out you will never be able to reproduce what is in the patent because it is self contradictory and bogus.

I am saying this despite the fact that I hold some patents myself, so I know what you have to do to get one.

Grumps!! Long time no talk!

It may or may not work. However it is on the market and many people have claimed that it's been helpful. Placebo effect? Possibly.

aarg:
I spent 5 minutes Googling and found source papers with much more base information - more than enough to build with, assuming that you know how to build electronics. Which of course you should, if you are going to build an un-certified device with electrodes attached to your earlobes. :slight_smile:

Yes, there are a number of tACS, tDCS, tVNS, etc. device schematics readily available. I have a few of them downloaded. My original intent was to just build something from a schematic and hope that it might work. Unfortunately that doesn't really allow me to learn anything, which is my primary goal with this.

jremington:
The device is completely bogus, proved by the utter nonsense in the patent application. Ask yourself why it should cost $700.

These and similar quack devices, like TENS units, have been around for decades, and most medical insurance companies won't pay for them, because they are no more effective than placebos.

That said, about 25% of people do get relief through the placebo effect, no matter what the treatment, so ask your doctor what's best for you.

Maybe it's bogus, maybe it isn't. Placebo effect? Entirely possible. Having mentioned that, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation Devices are used in a clinical setting on a fairly frequent basis. tDCS and other devices are used clinically too. The Alpha Stim is FDA approved (I know that really doesn't amount to all that much) and there are medical studies that lend some weight to the efficacy of CES/MET. Hell, DARPA has even been working on a similar device.

Regarding the output voltage, my guess is that it's anywhere between 2.9 - 11.6 VAC. This is based on open source medical papers that indicate that the resistance of human skin at the ear lobes is 10,000 - 40,000 ohms. I estimate, based on the very rough 10 second waveform that the maximum amount of current is .29mA. My W.A.G. is that it outputs around 8 - 10VAC.

Additionally, someone has claimed to have reverse engineered this device and has put out some documents. An MSP430 was used in this particular instance. The "spikes" in the original waveform were negated as the timing couldn't be ascertained. Also, the waveform produced by this "reverse engineered" device don't look anything like the original waveform. I think an Arduino or ESP8266 + DAC + 2ch op amp + transistors + various resistors, caps, etc. might do the trick.