Highly Anticipated 32-bit "Due" due When?

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#9

Ultimately, the "Open Source" argument is academic.

What does this statement mean? "Open Source" has no value or Arduino is not open or what?

Edit:

Arduino is a business so what is strange about a relationship with Atmel?

"Open Source" cultures do not mix well with regimented, secretive, proprietary, corporate cultures like ATMEL.

Arduino has relationships with distributors and the company or companies that manufacture hardware. See the web for video tour:

http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2012/01/18/arduino-factory-tour-video/

http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2012/01/09/special-ask-an-engineer-11412-a-tour-of-the-arduino-factory/

#10

"regimented, secretive, proprietary, corporate cultures like ATMEL" and yet isn't everything about the chips we use published on their website for us engineers?

#11

CrossRoads:
“regimented, secretive, proprietary, corporate cultures like ATMEL”
and yet isn’t everything about the chips we use published on their website for us engineers?

You know where the VHDL is? (I actually haven’t looked, as I have no need for it nor the knowledge to use it - but it would be cool to see!)…

#12

We know we aren't going to see the VHDL from ATMEL or FTDI, or the internal schematics of the voltage regulators.

We DO expect to see how those many documented subsystems are put together to make a DUE.

Many have forked the earlier hardware Arduinos with good results.

The Arduino IDE System consists of subsystems, many from ATMEL, for which the source code is not available, plus various (I think) open source components. The IDE has been hacked pretty deeply by a few, like Ardblock (https://github.com/taweili/ardublock).

Hi, If you're interested in following the development of ArduBlock, mentioned above, there is now a discussion group here: http://groups.google.com/group/ardublock?hl=en

For those of us who want a widely collaborative development effort, I don't think Arduino is gonna be it.

#13

The benevolent dictator model works

A benevolent dictatorship has always been the most efficient form of government and of project management for that matter. As long as the bloke at the top stays sane and knows what he's doing :)

For those of us who want a widely collaborative development effort, I don't think Arduino is gonna be it.

This is one reason I like the DuinoMite project. I think the hardware was a done deal by the designer but the software is certainly collaborative.

Maybe people aren't that interested in collaborating on hardware, I only got one response to my call to collaborate on a Due-like board and that was from a member that is mostly a software type (actually that was good because I'm mostly hardware). While it's easier in many ways to just do your own thing, however you usually get a better product if there are a few minds on the job.

Rob

#14

I suppose a company can not be PURELY open source software & hardware, otherwise making a profit would be very difficult, especially with the globalized economy. The Chinese will always make it faster, cheaper, and although not the best, good enough.

Plenty of bootstrapped microcontroller modules are out in the market. Why did Arduino catch on so immensely? My guess: low cost, the choice of a common language (C), floating point math, analog-to-digital converters (missing in basic stamp) & other peripherals, a very good forum, and "open source". But the same can be said about leaflabs.com, so what is it about Arduino? How did they make it into Radio Shack stores?

#15

I suppose a company can not be PURELY open source software & hardware, otherwise making a profit would be very difficult,

Adafruit.com says they made a lot of money while everything they sell is open source. There was a good New York Times article about it.

Why would I use the OPenSource info to build and populate an Arduino board when I can buy one for less than $20?? If I want to make a modified fork of that design to provide special functions, and I am going to make 500+ of them, that's different (I'm thinking of doing that right now)...

#16

randomvibe: I suppose a company can not be PURELY open source software & hardware, otherwise making a profit would be very difficult, especially with the globalized economy. The Chinese will always make it faster, cheaper, and although not the best, good enough.

Plenty of bootstrapped microcontroller modules are out in the market. Why did Arduino catch on so immensely? My guess: low cost, the choice of a common language (C), floating point math, analog-to-digital converters (missing in basic stamp) & other peripherals, a very good forum, and "open source". But the same can be said about leaflabs.com, so what is it about Arduino? How did they make it into Radio Shack stores?

Add to the attributes of the initial arduino platform success is the fact that they released the IDE in three major OS versions, Win, Lin, Mac. Not sure any other offering at the time had that avalible as standard. As far as Radio Shack goes, they are a pretty late to the show as far as distribution goes, but can only help add to the user population. Only time will tell if RS continues to sell them as I'm sure they will drop them in time if sales don't meet some minimum expectations. At this point in time I think RS needs arduino more then arduino needs RS, as RS is having real issues with trying to figure out what their core business should be these days. They do seem interested at trying to at least explore going back to their early roots rather then just being a cell phone and Christmas toy store.

Mix is a little luck at having the right product at the right time at the right price with the right 'features', helped put the arduino platform on a successful track. I'm sure if you asked the project originators they would admit never dreaming it would be such a popular platform and that their original goal never involved trying to be the #1. There is certainly nothing technically superior about the arduino, either in hardware or software, compared to other offerings either then or now. I personally was attracted to it because it seemed to make learning and using C/C++ a lot less daunting a task compared to anything else I had come across at the time. Most 'beginner' platforms used some proprietary form of the Basic language which is always somewhat limiting as far as growth and portability goes.

Lefty

#17

February is here. The 32-bit Due is not here. Why is Arduino so tight-lipped about this delay? This failure in open-ness is disturbing.

The LeafLabs module called Maple seems like an excellent alternative. Not sure why it's not catching on. Priced at $45 US dollars, that's $20 less than the 8-bit Arduino Mega 2560. The programming environment in Maple is compatible with Arduino! It's based on Wiring C. If it ever comes out, the price for the Due will likely be higher than the Mega 2560 - so I predict the Due will cost around $70 US dollars. Arduino can prove me wrong. Anyway, some high level specs on the Maple:

http://leaflabs.com/devices/#Maple

Microcontroller: STM32F103RB (32-Bit)

Clock Speed: 72 MHz

Flash Memory: 128 KB

SRAM: 20KB

Operating Voltage: 3.3V

64 Channel nested vector interrupt handler

Digital I/O Pins: 39

16-Bit PWM: 15

Analog Input Pins: 16 (12 Bit!)

Integrated SPI/I2C and 7 Channels of DMA

Support for low power and sleep modes (<500uA)

Dimensions: 2.05"x2.1"

Perhaps Arduino should consider changing over from ATMEL to STM since Maple already has them beat on the 32-bit front. I think the community would be best served if Arduino & LeafLabs join forces!

#18

There has been 2-3 long threads running about this and so far not one single response from Arduino Inc.

They aren't normally very active on the forum and that's OK because most questions can be answered by the experienced members, but this particular topic cannot be addressed by anyone outside the inner circle.

I would at least expect a "Sorry but we've had some issues" post but not even that. And has been mentioned a few times the press release stated that the design would be done in consultation with the community. Hmmm.

I suppose I get that you don't want to release too many details up front or you wind up with the Leonardo situation whereby there are so many clones out now that there's hardly any point releasing the real thing :)

Never the less I think people need to know exactly what is coming out or they may jump ship to Maple et al.

Rob

#19

Maple seems like an excellent alternative

I bought an Olimex Maple and it is no Arduino. :relaxed:

I have the Uno, Mega, and teensy and I have had no problems using LCDs, SDcards, and buttons.

However, the Maple has driver issues with Windows 7, that take a work around provided by someone outside of the LeafLabs team. The language is almost Arduino style but, not many of the libraries work. The LCD library has bugs that only allow you to use one line on a 2 lines display :(. I have posted about the lcd issue with no response. There is certainly no "Playground".

The processor and board are wonderful but, I am already frustrated that somethings that I though were simple do not work easily with Maple. I now have the task of learning libraries to try to fix problems myself.

If you want to see some of it for yourself, read a few pages of questions on their forum and look at how many are unresolved.

#20

cyclegadget: I bought an Olimex Maple and it is no Arduino.

Olimex Maple is not the same as the original LeafLabs Maple. Olimex is a foreign company that literally cloned & copied Leaflabs, and not very successfully. They even copied Leaflabs' wiki page. Blaming Leaflabs for Olimex shortcomings is like blaming Apple Inc. for problems with Chinese iPhone clones.

#21

I don't wish to attack Leaf Labs or anyone associated. I just feel that the Maple still needs more development to make it as usable as Arduino products.

The problems I have had are the same as the people who claim to have the L.L. Maple.

The Olimex uses the same chip, bootloader, pin out, and IDE. It may very well be that it is not the same as a True Maple but, so far the problems I have encountered are common among other users that claim to have the L.L. Maple

I want badly to use an ARM chip. The Maple is the easiest to use ARM board that I have found yet. I have not had as much success with my STM32 Primer2, or my STM32F4 Discovery board other than using example sketches. The Maple is the first ARM that has a programming language that I consider friendly to a hobbyist.

I also want to say that I have been looking up commands and trying several things to see if I can fix the LCD library. I am not a programmer but, I think it can be done. I have not given up yet.

#22

I think people are getting mixed up between an open source hardware project and an open source hardware development. The Arduino is a product made by a bunch of people in a business. The product of their work is then made freely available for others to use without restriction. That is the open source hardware aspect.

The Arduino is not a community based development project where every one can chip in and contribute and a project grows. A good example of that sort of anarchy is to be found in the RepRap project. I am not being derogatory calling it an anarchy, it is what it is and anarchisms can be extremely good things.

The arduino team do consult and take note of some of the things here but they keep their distance. It is their project, their ball, so they can do what they want. All this lack of announcements is regrettable but as I say that is how they want to play it.

#23

cyclegadget:

Maple seems like an excellent alternative

I bought an Olimex Maple and it is no Arduino. :relaxed:

Please don't call it what it isn't.

The Olimexino-STM32 is not the "Olimex Maple." It is an Arduino and Maple-like board.

LeafLabs, the original makers of the Maple, licensed their software and hardware as open source. Anyone is able to build upon it and Olimex has.

#24

robodude666:

cyclegadget:

Maple seems like an excellent alternative

I bought an Olimex Maple and it is no Arduino. :relaxed:

Please don't call it what it isn't.

The Olimexino-STM32 is not the "Olimex Maple." It is an Arduino and Maple-like board.

LeafLabs, the original makers of the Maple, licensed their software and hardware as open source. Anyone is able to build upon it and Olimex has.

Fair enough, I will use the proper name if I refer to this board again. Often on this forum, if someone uses a Atmega328 with the Arduino IDE, they refer to it as some sort of duino or Arduino compatible. I was using that line of thinking when referring to the board, obviously you still knew what board I was referring to but, I understand your why you prefer more clarity. I was trying to be clear that I had the Olimex and not a Leaflabs board.

#25

Come on Arduino Team. Reply to this thread and tell us what the progress is with the Due please.

#26

Here in Genoa (Home port of the Lifeboats from the Costa Concordia), it's pronounced like " DO A" (A like the letter A is pronounced)

OverDue Due in Italian would be "in ritardo due"

We may as well play with words if we can't play with hardware :)

#27

I was looking for a 32 bits Arduino and I bought a chipKIT UNO32 just before the Due was announced.

The chipKIT UNO32 brings lot of processing power at 80 MHz, space with 128 kB, many IOs and 2 hardware serial ports, for a price close to the Arduino UNO.

The IDE is based on the same standard Processing IDE and can handle both Arduino and chipKIT boards.

I'm glad I haven't waited for the Due!

#28

terryking228: Here in Genoa (Home port of the Lifeboats from the Costa Concordia), it's pronounced like " DO A" (A like the letter A is pronounced)

OverDue Due in Italian would be "in ritardo due"

We may as well play with words if we can't play with hardware :)

Hey think of it as the perfect spaghetti sauce. It will be ready when it's ready, no sooner and no later. Speaking of later I think it's time for a nap. Retirement is great, it's worth the wait also. ;)