Lead Free Solder - I hate you EU guys...

Now, there's an odd statement. I'm looking out of my window at quite a few kilotonnes of water vapour floating above me. This is England, and it is summer, so I'm pretty sure the temperature up there isn't anywhere like 373K.

Temperature is only part of the equation - you're forgetting pressure. I think the specific material property is vapor pressure.

The boiling point of lead is 3180F / 1750C. I know my soldering iron doesn't get that hot.

-j

No, I'm not forgetting pressure. I'm pretty sure lead vapour exists at temperatures well below its boiling point, just as water vapour exists at temperatures well below its boiling point.

It used to be that the Kelvin was defined as 1/273.16 (roughly) of the temperature of the triple-point of water at 760mmHg (it may well still be). The triple point of water (32 degrees Farenheit, 0 Celsius) is where water exists in all three phases - ice, liquid and vapour.

According to this lead fume will be present at temperatures above 450 C, whisch is well over normal soldering temperatur.

http://diamondenv.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/lead-exposure-during-soldering/

As a EU citizen I feel I must defend the banning of lead in soldering just a little :D . The aim of the RoHS directive was to minimize the exposure of lead in the nature. Think about the massive amount of scrappped TVs, computers etc. containing lead laying around and poluting the earth and water.

Think about the massive amount of scrappped TVs, computers etc. containing lead laying around and poluting the earth and water.

Nah, think where it came from in the first place - we're just putting it back where it belongs :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

SO - in Europe, if you get shot by a shotgun, will you die from steel poisoning?

If you were shot by a lead bullet, if it were not in a vital area you would still not die from lead poisoning. Elemental lead, in and of itself, is fairly benign, it is the various compounds of lead that make it dangerous. Paint used to contain various oxides of lead. Lead dust oxidizes and forms other compounds much more readily that does solid chunks, because of surface area.

I am not saying that lead is by any means harmless, but , as with many things in life, we can become so alarmed by the "possible" harm that we overlook the many more hazardous things we deal with in everyday life. Like Gasoline...

Thank goodness we took the lead out of that too.

'Proper' old school 60/40 solder is still freely available on fleabay :)

JimboZA: Lead-free-solder, from the guys who brought you these rules too 8)

And that article is full of errors... Or, maybe not errors, but things left out.

The thing with "Waters does not hydrate you." is not something they actually said, they just didn't want company's who bottled the water to claim that their water was more hydrating than normal water, and that is what some had done, even when it was absolutely normal water in the bottles.

And "Diabetics are banned from driving" no they are not, they are if they got 2 dangerous attacks from it within a year, then yes. And why is that so bad? Or is it better when they can end up driving like in those youtube video's with people getting ill while driving, changing onto oncoming traffic, or are close to hitting pedestrians? There are many stupid rules made, but some of them are also made worse than they actually are, just because some need something to complain about. If someone get ill while driving and kills someone, people complain too, but that also cost a life.

kf2qd: SO - in Europe, if you get shot by a shotgun, will you die from steel poisoning?

If you were shot by a lead bullet, if it were not in a vital area you would still not die from lead poisoning. Elemental lead, in and of itself, is fairly benign, it is the various compounds of lead that make it dangerous. Paint used to contain various oxides of lead. Lead dust oxidizes and forms other compounds much more readily that does solid chunks, because of surface area.

I am not saying that lead is by any means harmless, but , as with many things in life, we can become so alarmed by the "possible" harm that we overlook the many more hazardous things we deal with in everyday life. Like Gasoline...

I am pretty sure that you are exposed to being shot way less than you are to being exposed to it other places... And we don't have gasoline with lead in either, that got removed many years ago.

Erni: Look at the bright side. Hunters in EU are not allowed to use lead bullets, so if you get hit by a shutgun, you won't die from lead poisoning.

To be fair, I think the idea is that if you go duck hunting, and not every pellet enters the duck (which no doubt happens) you aren't leaving a lot of lead pellets in the ground/water.

pluggy: 'Proper' old school 60/40 solder is still freely available on fleabay :)

I dont know about across the pond, but in the US its readily available, and your free to use it, as long as its not a commercially produced product.

The thing with “Waters does not hydrate you.” is not something they actually said, they just didn’t want company’s who bottled the water to claim that their water was more hydrating than normal water, and that is what some had done, even when it was absolutely normal water in the bottles

No that is wrong. The rule was brought in by the drinks industry lobby so that they could say that their drink hydrated you and water did not.
The EU are the most stupid institution ever invented, and that is saying something given the world wide compertition.
They might mean well but they are so stupid it is untrue. Most of the rules they introduce has exactly the opposite effect to what was intended.

Osgeld: I dont know about across the pond, but in the US its readily available, and your free to use it, as long as its not a commercially produced product.

Yeah - at my favorite electronics junkyard (Apache Reclamation) here in Phoenix, you can purchase (fairly cheaply, I might add) ingot bars of solder (for dip-solder pots). They are 60/40, but don't have rosin, of course. I keep thinking I should purchase a couple, because you never know when you might need such a thing. Of course, this place also has several old-school "dagger" style soldering irons (you know - the ones you heat up with a blow torch). That's why I love the joint - the weird and old crap that is available there is pretty astounding.

SO - in Europe, if you get shot by a shotgun, will you die from steel poisoning?

No, lead in cartridges has been replaced by bismuth, which incidentally is just slightly more dense than lead and is diamagnetic and not toxic.

[quote author=Nick Gammon link=topic=113442.msg858095#msg858095 date=1342132716]To be fair, I think the idea is that if you go duck hunting, and not every pellet enters the duck (which no doubt happens) you aren't leaving a lot of lead pellets in the ground/water.[/quote]

I still have a lead water main on my house. I think I'm in trouble ;)

The idea is that the lead pellets that hit the bird but don't kill it eventually poison it later. Given that bird hunting is generally firing into a large flock it's fully expected that few pellets will hit birds and not take them down, so from a hunting standpoint you want them to recover rather than just die off somewhere else. Adding to this (at least in my location), it is still legal to use lead shot on crows, pigeons, etc. -- the non-tasty types of birds -- so the law is reasonable in that respect.

I was led to think in hunters safety coarse that the lead shot falls into the water or surrounding area where migratory birds are and are consumed with bugs, grasses and normal food on accident.

I have no idea if it is true or not but that is what I was told about the new law at the time about the non-lead shotgun cartridges.

The idea is that the lead pellets that hit the bird but don't kill it eventually poison it later. Given that bird hunting is generally firing into a large flock it's fully expected that few pellets will hit birds and not take them down

Wrong and wrong.

If the bird dies later, it's a result of getting shot, not from having a bit of metal left in it.

As previously pointed out, lead left embedded does not result in lead poisoning - lead is fairly inert. A lady at my previous employer had a brother with a bunch of lead shot in his leg from an accident as a kid - in there for years with no problems.

Lead only becomes medically dangerous (other than the whole kinetic energy thing) when it oxidizes, and that happens in the stomach, and to a lesser extent in the bloodstream.

The reason for banning lead shot is that the shot that misses falls into the water, and bottom feeding ducks later ingest it (see stomach acid). This is the waterfowl poisoning route.

Shotguns do not produce some huge pattern until the kinetic energy is reduced to the point the pellets aren't dangerous. At the range you are likely to take down a waterfowl the pattern is still quite tight - a few inches. It isn't spray and pray like you see on TV.

-j

In the USA, Missouri in particular, there is\was some sort of ban on lead for children's products. As a result, youth dirt bike motorcycles and parts could not be sold in Missouri. I know this is true because a Senator of Missouri came to a motorcross race to address the public about this and tell us that he wanted to correct the law to allow youth motorcycle sales.

The funniest part is that motorcycles are not generally eaten or licked by children. Also, the lead content they would be worried about would have to be in the metal and maybe a battery. The law was not about lead paint or anything like that.

Chagrin: [quote author=Nick Gammon link=topic=113442.msg858095#msg858095 date=1342132716] The idea is that the lead pellets that hit the bird but don't kill it eventually poison it later. Given that bird hunting is generally firing into a large flock it's fully expected that few pellets will hit birds and not take them down, so from a hunting standpoint you want them to recover rather than just die off somewhere else. Adding to this (at least in my location), it is still legal to use lead shot on crows, pigeons, etc. -- the non-tasty types of birds -- so the law is reasonable in that respect.

Due to a treaty with Mexico you might not want to shoot those crows. Might have some Washington types coming down and causing you some trouble...