Microwave reflow oven

well almost!

background
a)
I have a reflow oven for SMD soldering
works a treat, but the enclosure isn't really up to it
so there's bits and wires all over the floor
it's obviously Arduino controlled :slight_smile:
b)
the bulb in the catering department's microwave oven has gone
seems not user fixable
you have to call an engineer
cost of parts (one light bulb) + engineer's time (minimum charge, call-out fee) >> cost of new microwave
c)
SWMBO, not being one to miss a retail therapy session, now has a shiny new microwave (complete with fully functioning light)

so I now have a microwave oven to play with :slight_smile:

the plan (which as we all know is a four-letter word) is

  • rip out the microwave part and all its associated gubbins
  • install heater from reflow Mk I
  • install Arduino control from reflow Mk I
  • replace 16*2 LCD panel with the panel in the microwave
  • replace knobs, buttons, etc. with same from microwave oven
  • use the fan as part of the cooling cycle :slight_smile:
    end result should look like a microwave but work like a reflow oven

anyone ever interfaced with the LCD from a microwave?
hints?
tips?

thanks

Hi! I am starting a project where I use an Arduino board to control the functions of a microwave oven. I'm hoping to eventually go wireless and cook something automatically. Right now, I have taken apart an old microwave oven with a touch pad LCD display, and I'm looking for how I can incorporate an Arduino into the circuit. In all, I think it isn't a hugely complicated circuit, but I have no idea how the components are wired, and how the LCD screen works. Like when you tap on "Popcorn," how does it go to the specified power level and cooking time? My main question is how to interface the microwave oven control panel. Any tips?

Any tips?

Take the oven to your local recycling centre and leave it there.

Be careful in case the materials used to line the ovens walls are not usable at the higher temperatures that your reflow oven will subject them to.

Microwave ovens don't normally get very hot, so they may use plastic materials not suitable for high temperatures.

leofelixzhu:
Like when you tap on "Popcorn," how does it go to the specified power level and cooking time?

The fact that you're asking this leads me to believe that messing around modifying a microwave oven isn't something you should be doing.

A note of caution:

Microwave ovens (and their electronics) aren't toys; inside there is a high voltage (HV) transformer and a powerful RF device (called a magnetron) to generate the microwaves. Properly shielded inside the oven, these microwaves, at the output levels of a consumer microwave oven, are safe. When you start taking apart a microwave, though - all bets are off as to whether - when the oven is put back together - the shielding capability remains intact. While coming into brief contact with microwave energy from a consumer device won't kill or otherwise hurt you, prolonged contact can cause RF burns to the eyes and skin - and you might not know there is a problem until it is too late.

To answer your question, though - most consumer microwave ovens have only two power settings: HIGH and OFF. To have a different power level (like 50% power), the microwave oven's controller simply toggles the magnetron between those states as needed to output the proper amount of power. Let's say 50% power is equal to a 30 second cycle between on and off. So if you set the time on the oven to 1 minute, the oven would turn on for 15 seconds (HIGH), then off for 15 seconds, then on again for 15 seconds (HIGH), and finally off again for 15 seconds.

That's basically how all consumer microwave oven's work. I have read that there are microwave ovens that can do continuous PWM to control output power, but they must not be popular, or they are more expensive, or something - I haven't seen one personally. When you think about it, though, a standard microwave is doing a form of PWM - just with a long period between state changes.

The control of the power to the magnetron is handled by either a switched-mode HV power supply (on newer models usually), or by a large HV transformer (older). These convert the household mains AC into the high voltage needed to power the magnetron. The microwave's controller then turns on and off the mains AC power via a relay or a triac to ultimately turn the HV to the magnetron on and off.

leofelixzhu:
My main question is how to interface the microwave oven control panel. Any tips?

I wouldn't even bother. It would be better to try to reverse engineer and hack the existing on/off switching control of the magnetron (whether it uses a relay or triac control), or switch it on/off yourself with your own relay or SSR (or triac). Before doing so, figure out the basic timings of the power switching by running it with a cup of water inside - at the various power settings, and timing the on/off transitions. Make notes of all this, then write your software on the Arduino to provide the same timing control.

Funny enough, the other day my daughter bought a new microwave, simply because she didn't want to clean the current one.

The first thing that went through my mind was "Hmm reflow oven :)" and this one even has a grill built in, nevertheless, I didn't think about it too long. I'm pretty sure the interior wouldn't withstand the heat required. I may have another look now though.

When I saw the heading of this thread, I was hoping somebody had dared to create an actual microwave oven PCB reflow system. In theory it could be done, since you can fairly easily melt metal for casting in a standard home microwave oven. The principles for reflow might be similar. I did find this research paper, which seemed interesting:

https://smartech.gatech.edu/handle/1853/5011

In it, an industrial microwave furnace is shown - a MicroCure 2100:

http://www.microcure.com/pdf/mc2100%20brochure.pdf

That brochure, though, seems to indicate that this machine isn't a typical run-of-the-mill microwave system. Even so, it would be an interesting hack to be able to reflow solder in a standard microwave in some manner...

:slight_smile:

Jack in the Box used to sell a pretty good breakfast pita pocket. The wrapper was paper with some really, really thin foil. When I got home I got sidetracked and decided to reheat the pita pocket without, however absent-mindedly, taking it out of the wrapper.
The microwave started up and after a few seconds started going "wuoww, wuoww" like and I popped back in the kitchen and I thought I saw it shooting sparks in there and then there was smoke from the wrapper. That's my only experience with metal stuff in the microwave.
It still works as far as I can tell - and as well as ever for more than 20 years since (nearly 25 in all.)

I once took a bag of bread rolls out of the freezer and put it straight in the microwave, forgetting that the wire tie was still around the neck of the bag.
It glowed, briefly even on the "defrost" setting and cut neatly through the polythene bag,, dropping to the turntable plate, where it continued to fizzle.
I often wondered what PCB tracks would do.
Or IC bond wires.

cr0sh:
since you can fairly easily melt metal for casting in a standard home microwave oven.

Using a specially-designed crucible made of microwave-absorbent material, similar to "browning plates".

Clearly you can not reflow an actual circuit board with electronic components assembled using microwaves.

Allegedly, if you put a mobile phone that is nearing the end of it's warranty in a microwave oven for a few seconds, it will thoroughly kill it in a manner that is hard for local services to diagnose and impossible to fix. You end up with a new phone.
I haven't tried this but it sounds entirely plausible (the killing part, getting a new one is up for debate).
Microwaves generate strong electric fields on sharp points that arc and spark. Tiny wires inside ICs have very low chance of surviving that.
This is what happens to a CD when put in a microwave oven

As an asside, there's an interesting phenomonon with water and microwaves. If you have a vessel with perfectly smooth walls (such as a nice new glass jug), fill it with water and place it in the microwave, the water will get above boiling point without boiling.

When you remove the jug from the microwave, you can have a situation where the water is superheated, yet shows no sign of even boiling. The moment you break the surface tention (with a spoon or whatever), It then explodes in your face.

As an asside, there's an interesting phenomonon with water and microwaves. If you have a vessel with perfectly smooth walls (such as a nice new glass jug), fill it with water and place it in the microwave, the water will get above boiling point without boiling.

When you remove the jug from the microwave, you can have a situation where the water is superheated, yet shows no sign of even boiling. The moment you break the surface tention (with a spoon or whatever), It then explodes in your face.

I can only wonder how you manage to figure this out. Very interesting though!

I have to ask, I know electricity doesn't run through pure (distilled) water, that it must have impurities. Would distilled water be immune to micro waves in a similar manner as it is to electricity?

cr0sh:
Microwave ovens (and their electronics) aren't toys; inside there is a high voltage (HV) transformer and a powerful RF device (called a magnetron) to generate the microwaves.

did everyone miss the FIRST step ?

to rip out and discard ALL the microwave bits and just use the empty shell ?

then interface the 5 volt electronics as a keypad and display ?

I would offer that the huge cavity would not be my first choice, but it is only an empty metal shell.

Thomas,
No.
Microwave oven uses electromagnetic radiation that causes water molecules to repeatedly realign themselves according to the electromagnetic field produced by the magnetron. This introduces energy in the form of heat.

Dave,
OP is more than a year old. We are replying to the first reply which introduces an entirely different problem.

Infrared is microwave too :slight_smile:
If you can tune the magnetron up to, say 1-10um wavelength, you may use the oven as-is..
:slight_smile:

What would you propose this tune up to look like?
Consumer microwave ovens usually use a wavelength of about 12 cm. That's quite far from 1-10um.

Infrared is microwave too

More like picowave or nanowave

"Microwave"

..The boundaries between far infrared, terahertz radiation, microwaves, and ultra-high-frequency radio waves are fairly arbitrary and are used variously between different fields of study..

pito:
"Microwave"
Microwave - Wikipedia

That does not change the fact that the difference is many orders of magnitude.

Think of it as just trying to park a 100,000 oil tanker in a car parking space. After all parking space sizes are fairly arbitrary ....

That would be quite some tune up.

That said if I were scrapping a microwave to make a reflow oven, I would not throw away the bits, there is a high power HT PSU in there for a start!