Music tuner that monitors four sources at once

I want to make a tuner that can monitor four sources at once. I have a musical instrument that has four pipes (bagpipes) and I want to view the tuning of all four pipes at the same time. Possible?

What about this ?

see attached

RSDIY_Arduino_Guitar_Tuner.pdf (1 MB)

I was thinking something more like this (see attached)

Well, I still need a frequency readout and calibration switch, but you get the idea…

Four sources being all tuned at the same time…

tuner_x4.jpg

3DPiper: I was thinking something more like this (see attached)

Maybe so, but raschemmel linked you to a project showing exactly how to implement it for a single channel - you just need to work out how to do the same thing four times.

raschemmel linked you to a project showing exactly how to implement it for a single channel - you just need to work out how to do the same thing four times.

Yes, that is a very good start. But, there is a little more to it than four separate channels, they are in fact all related.. Plus, this isn't a chromatic tuner.. Where do I find help from someone with knowledge in this area? I have a budget for this..

3DPiper: they are in fact all related

This is news to me - I have no idea how they're related so I can't advise how to implement that relationship.

3DPiper: .. Plus, this isn't a chromatic tuner.. Where do I find help from someone with knowledge in this area? I have a budget for this..

I don't know what a chromatic tuner is, but if you're willing to pay somebody for advice / help then the Gigs & Collaborations section is the place to post your request.

This is the first I've heard that anyone ever tries to tune bagpipes. None of the ones I've heard suggest that intonation is high on anyone's priority list.

Single-tone tuners are hard - just do a search on this forum, and see how many people aspire to making one, and how few report success. They're much easier if they don't have to identify the input frequency automatically. It may be that you don't need that feature.

You can see a solution for this project in Patent #8,309,834, an Apple patent for a polyphonic tuner. A quick reading says that the technique is: use some kind of frequency discrimination function - almost certainly an FFT - to identify a frequency close to the lowest fundamental you're looking for, and then identify a couple of harmonics of that frequency to be sure that the fundamental is really present; repeat that for the other frequencies of interest using the same data; and finally, report the results as either sharp or flat. It's written in patent-ese, with the intent of covering as many implementations of the concept as possible, without really giving much away. A Google search for the patent will yield descriptions that are more understandable, but generally equally uninformative.

This scheme calls for some pretty precise frequency estimates. For a six-string guitar, some of the interesting frequencies are close together, requiring narrow frequency bins to differentiate between them. It might work if you're Apple, doing this on a smartphone or audio workstation, where memory sizes and processor speeds start with, "giga-," and high sample rates spanning several cycles aren't particularly challenging. The Arduino Uno may not be up to it.

The "instructables" link isn't really applicable to this project. It relies on identifying the input signal's zero-crossing with the maximum slope, and measuring the time between those events. That's iffy for single-tone signals; it's no help for polyphonic signals. You might be happier with a single-tone tuner. How often do you have to tune up, and how fast?

This is the first I've heard that anyone ever tries to tune bagpipes. None of the ones I've heard suggest that intonation is high on anyone's priority list.

:) It is often said that the best place to listen to bagpipes is across the other side of the glen, or better still the next one.

Basically the arduino isn't up to it and nether are most computers.

This is the first I've heard that anyone ever tries to tune bagpipes. None of the ones I've heard suggest that intonation is high on anyone's priority list.

Always nice to come for help and get insulted.. :0 I will only take into account your own ignorance of bagpipes and move on..

Single-tone tuners are hard - just do a search on this forum, and see how many people aspire to making one, and how few report success. They're much easier if they don't have to identify the input frequency automatically. It may be that you don't need that feature

I can calibrate the tuning frequency each time, it doesn't have to be automatic.. In fact, I would rather set it by hand since it changes as you play and/or weather conditions..

This scheme calls for some pretty precise frequency estimates. For a six-string guitar, some of the interesting frequencies are close together, requiring narrow frequency bins to differentiate between them.

I don't need chromatic tuning, our scale has near fixed pitch steps based on our tuning frequency.. If our LowA comes in at 477Hz, we tune all notes from that base frequency..

It might work if you're Apple, doing this on a smartphone or audio workstation, where memory sizes and processor speeds start with, "giga-," and high sample rates spanning several cycles aren't particularly challenging. The Arduino Uno may not be up to it.

That is disappointing if it is true, I don't see why it wouldn't work.. This is the same tuning as any of the chromatic guitar tuners (which there are many using arduino), except I want to calibrate my frequency reference then check each note based on steps from that frequency.. At the same time I want to check the tuning of each drone to the calibrated frequency.. Chromatic tuners are evenly tempered, our scale is not (we are just tempered).. I want to leave this active while the player is playing so they can check their tuning and pressure as they perform..

The "instructables" link isn't really applicable to this project. It relies on identifying the input signal's zero-crossing with the maximum slope, and measuring the time between those events. That's iffy for single-tone signals; it's no help for polyphonic signals. You might be happier with a single-tone tuner. How often do you have to tune up, and how fast?

We tune constantly (well, good pipers do).. We warm up and find our tuning frequency, then tune everything to that frequency.. As we play, we re-tune (the pipes warm up and/or get moisture in them and change tuning)..

It is often said that the best place to listen to bagpipes is across the other side of the glen, or better still the next one.

Yup, that's funny.. :roll_eyes:

Basically the arduino isn't up to it and nether are most computers.

I don't believe that.. We have several tuners specifically for the bagpipes now..

Like the Saul Bagpipe Tuner:

http://saultuner.com/home.html

or the Blair Tuner:

http://thebagpipetuner.com/product/hbt-3-bagpipe-tuner/

Lots of people just use chromatic tuners, like the Korg CA-1:

http://www.korg.com/us/products/tuners/ca_1/

but chromatic tuners will only get your main tuning frequency, not help you tune each note on the chanter..

I have the HBT-3, and it works great.. You warm up, calibrate it to what frequency you are playing at, then you can tune your drones to the calibrated frequency as well as check each note on your chanter.. But it only tunes one thing at a time.. I want to make something similar, but with hookups (like the Saul Tuner) and display ALL PIPES at the same time (three drones and chanter).. That way as you play you can see what is in tune or not, as well as watch your pressure.. I teach kids, and this would be an invaluable tool to visually show what needs to be adjusted..

3DPiper: Always nice to come for help and get insulted.

A thin-skinned bagpiper? You mean you didn't see that coming when you posted?

Initially, I thought you wanted to tune all the pipes by examining a single signal, separating the component tones, and reporting their frequencies - like polyphonic guitar tuners that have come out lately. That's a demanding task, likely beyond even an ingenious Arduino implementation. It's especially challenging for bagpipes, with three of the four sounders playing the same note. After your fourth post, it looks like you're contemplating something with four separate sensors, and tuning the signals one at a time. That's certainly feasible for the drones, if you can keep the sensors from hearing each other's pipes. Tuning the chanter while playing, though, is likely to be challenging.

The "instructables" link referenced earlier is applicable to single-tone tuning. So is this one, which uses autocorrelation to estimate the frequency: http://deambulatorymatrix.blogspot.com/2010/11/digital-chromatic-guitar-tuner-2008.html.

You've gotten several useful references for this project, but I don't see any evidence that you've looked at them. That makes me think that maybe you intend for someone else to implement this for you. If that's so, you might try the "Gigs and Collaborations" section, here: http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?board=26.0. If you want to continue pursuing it in this section, you'd do well to provide a more detailed description of your vision.