/rant
Since my first post here I have been appalled at the lack of manners, respect and just plain rudeness that some of our fellow members have.
We all know who they are, they probably do as well.
I normally don't go off like this, but this attitude where these guys are so rude and smug to people who admit they are newbies.
OK, some newbies ask dumb stuff, ask for impossible solutions or just pain out don't have a clue.
THAT is no excuse for being a smug creep!
Manners, respect and courtesy don't cost anything, but are priceless!
Sorry guys, but some of us need to lift our game!
/end rant
Since my first post here I have been appalled at the lack of manners, respect and just plain rudeness that some of our fellow members have.
Dude, it's the Internet. All those positive attributes you listed are totally voluntary when being relatively anonymous makes it so easy for one's 'inner angry beast' to spill prolifically.
I've found this forum to be heads and shoulders above most I have come across, as far as positive and helpful posters. Just chock it up as a forum of wide ranging personalities, and instead just lead by example.
Since my first post here I have been appalled at the lack of manners, respect and just plain rudeness that some of our fellow members have.
Dude, it's the Internet. All those positive attributes you listed are totally voluntary when being relatively anonymous makes it so easy for one's 'inner angry beast' to spill prolifically.
I've found this forum to be heads and shoulders above most I have come across, as far as positive and helpful posters. Just chock it up as a forum of wide ranging personalities, and instead just lead by example.
Lefty
I know Lefty, but as we are UberGeeks, we should set ourselves higher standards than "civilians"!
On the whole this IS a great forum, just the couple of guys here who are "legends in their own lunchtime" really make me angry.
I would love to see if they would speak to me in person like that.
One thing I would like to see here is the ability to delete dippy posts on topics we start ourselves.
Anyway, the usual suspects seem to have no comments on this topic yet!
So what do you think about an IP seeking cruise missile?
"One thing I would like to see here is the ability to delete dippy posts on topics we start ourselves."
That's one thing I don't like - folks come in, we answer a bunch of questions, do some research, then the poster gets their answer & deletes the topic!
As spam busters, we moderators get to delete topics & ban users. Some days see a lot more than others. The other moderators blast a lot more of it than I can get to.
I've found this forum to be heads and shoulders above most I have come across, as far as positive and helpful posters.
agreed!
funny i agree with the initial post but then i saw the quality of and how quickly you can get answers, GOOD answers, from fellow members so i figure i stop being a baby and just let the little "are you an idiot or something" remarks slide... i never really recieved a remark like that , just subtle condescending remarks preceding a very insightful answer.
I think the forum could really benefit from some sticky topics or an FAQ section. A lot of people coming on with a query that goes:
As my first Arduino project (I haven't blinked an LED yet)
I would like to process and transmit some data from (insert source of data more prolific than CERN) using an arduino to a PC
Can someone do all of this for me please or at least give me a step by step guide?
As one of the folks that also noticed a number snarky answers that deliberately try to belittle the OP as well as having them directed at me I have to totally agree with the OP of this thread. I've also noticed mention of this on other forums where they say something on the order of, "having people treat you like an idiot". If you check my postings you'll see that I am extremely careful not to belittle the person asking the question. I probably haven't succeeded as much as I'd like to especially once when I went off the deep end on one particular subject.
However, the overall tone of this forum is belittling to the new guy. Instead of saying, "Since you didn't post the code", say, "Could you post your code, that may help me see the problem". Be honest here, cyberteque is dead right. It may be fun to slam a new guy by showing off how marvelous we are, but it doesn't make any friends or improve the skill level of the hobby.
It's also true that the answers here are extremely good. Having been the recipient of several helping hands, I can attest to that. But you have to let the driveling, snarkies get their digs in before you can get to the good answers. Thank goodness the nice folk outnumber the jerks.
Sometimes I make people angry, this may be one of those times.
As I've noted before, Arduino's strength isn't really the hardware or the IDE.. if you went looking I'm sure there's comparable and/or better platforms out there. It's the community- which means this website and forum. Arduino isn't the Atmel board or the language. It's Us.
Take a stroll around a few other electronics and MCU development sites, and what you see ranges from disinterest in helping others to outright hostility. Arduino as a group of people are better than that in my experience. My knowledge is spotty, I frequently must research and then still struggle to understand concepts at times.. but that's the fun of learning. Overall, what I see time and again is people taking the time here to at least coax people into at least trying to learn for themselves (google is enough most of the time!), rather than taking advantage of all the decent people here who are willing to help folks. It's tedious and gets annoying, I think is the main problem. I don't think most actually mean to be as harsh as they come across at times.
I agree some sticky topics might help.. even if those stickies only are links to the appropriate page in the Arduino documentation, or to wikipedia on a particular subject. Might cut down on some of it.. basically a header "If you are new and have a basic question, check here first, we've cataloged answers to a few of the most common issues that new users have..." of course, that's basically the "Tutorials" section, isn't it?
It's easy to be snide or just get irritated, but I think we also need to remember a lot of the time, these are kids we're dealing with-- I know several local middle-schoolers who are Arduino hobbyists, though not active on the boards. The last thing we want to do is discourage an inquisitive mind.. and even in my forties and decades online, sometimes a flame can get under my skin-- I can only imagine the negativity felt by a teenager. That's not cool in my book.. and I can't even be sure I haven't done it myself. After re-reading a recent topic about a rather questionable sensor project, I realized that though I hadn't intended it, I might have been a bit harsh. I can't say for certain that I haven't done so at other times, I don't think any of us actually could, we're at least ostensibly human. There's a Philosophy here that goes beyond "open source"-- it's more like "open education". That makes the regulars the Teachers.
We have the luxury of one of the best learning platforms ever.. it's really a measure of the success of the project that so many neophytes end up here. Sure, a few are jerks-- but the rest come here for what is really probably the best education in basic electronic and computer technology that you can get outside of a university. We have to remember that we may be viewed as teachers in a way, I think.
I do agree most times this is one of the friendliest forums, I also must confess I tend to give a lame project when someone asks "Suggest me a project" with no further info. 9 of 10 times I won't, but sometimes I just can't resist.
Sometimes I do regret having voted against the Karma-system at the time the new forum started though.
If some beginner seeks answers and would like to do something that sounds very plausible from a newbies point of view some... may even burn the suggestion to the ground without saying why it's not a good idea. Except for Mowcius the karma system with positive and negative counter did give some... info on what to expect.
I can imagine if one has decades of experience it may be quite tiresome to answer the same question hundreds times though. On the other hand, looking at Arduinos history, it was meant to start learning something about micro-controllers. Let's hope people keep asking questions like "can I wire 3 leds parallel without resistors".
Still, on a scale from 0-10 I'd give this forum a 9.5 !
I can imagine if one has decades of experience it me be quite tiresome to answer the same question hundreds times though..
Yes. In which case, I just keep my mouth shut. The nice thing about a true "community" is the hierarchy of responders. If you have decade of experience, you don't have to answer the question about calculating the resistor value for an LED. Someone with mere months of experience will do it for you...
I agree, and focalist said it really well. The great thing about arduino is the low barrier to entry (in terms of knowledge and price) and this forum makes it possible.
However, on the subject of manners, I think that someone showing up on the forum without doing any research whatsoever, and has literally turned to the forum before google, or any of a host of easily accessible beginner resources, and asks for their project to be done for them, is just as rude as a condescending response.
When I first got interested in electronics, I did a lot of research and reading of tutorials and books, and it payed off, and I now do a lot of engineering projects outside the scope and scale of arduino, and am learning new stuff all the time, which is a lot more fun than asking a veteran forum member to write your code and send you a schematic.
I do think, for those too lazy, or who haven't had the thought to check out any of the many resources, a few sticky threads would be a good idea.
I think that [a certain type of clueless, lazy newbie] is just as rude as a condescending response.
Yes, of course. But they/we expect better of the knowledgeable regulars!
My personal pet peeve is the people who post a bad question, and an hour later start insulting the list for not having provided the answer yet. "It's still not working! How come no one has answered yet? I thought you were supposed to be helpful!" Grr.
I just spent some time going through the posts of the folks on this one thread (yes, even mine) and without exception, every person here is not guilty of what cyberteque was talking about. That brings to mind something cyberteque said early in this thread:
Anyway, the usual suspects seem to have no comments on this topic yet!
draythomp:
I just spent some time going through the posts of the folks on this one thread (yes, even mine) and without exception, every person here is not guilty of what cyberteque was talking about. That brings to mind something cyberteque said early in this thread:
Anyway, the usual suspects seem to have no comments on this topic yet!
Interesting prediction...
/naughty mode on
Are you judging your own posts ? let others be judge, self-interest might fool you
/mode off
About that prediction... I don't know how I would react if.. I... would... have written stuff which could be seen as hostile, someone started complaining and it became a discussion.
How should... "the other party" enter a discussion that started with a IP seeking Missile ?
Chances are every argument made could be misinterpreted and joining the discussion may be as difficult as walking on eggs. How do you think of that Cyberteque ?
I invited everyone to take a look at my posts. Also, I'll be the first to admit that I screw up..., a lot. I'd like to believe that I don't intentionally belittle anyone.....often.
But, you're right, once a discussion is on it's way down hill, it's tough to turn around. </honest mode>
I'm staying in fun mode, but that honest thing sucks.
I agree with the OP. I know in this forum, a lot of folks ask simple question like : How can I connect a LED ? You have to understand that some new members are not experience with electronics and experience in programing, or no experience in programing but experience in electronics. And you have new members with no experience at all ( no electronics and programing ). In general, when a noob ask a question, it is because the noob are unsure of what to do. Sometime they feel a bit insecure, afraid to do something wrong or they have no clue. They simply need help and guidance. So my personnel rule is : treat people the way you want to be treat it. Even regular members need help too !
I am doing my best to help, but I also need help sometime.