New PCB production tool

While on a scavenger hunt at AllElectronics.com I chanced upon a product called PnP Blue. PnP Blue is a plastic sheet coated with a release agent( the blue). You print your artwork or photocopy it onto the PnP Blue, iron on, let cool then peel off the backing. The results were astonishing, far better than I have ever gotten with any photographic method that used printed media. My initial board has a 5 mil board edge, which survived intact. At a cost of 2.50 per 8.5 x 11 it beats presensitized photographic board all the way. Here are some photos:
Download IMG_20131230_171655.jpg (CNC_Prototyper)
Download IMG_20131230_171636.jpg (CNC_Prototyper)
Download IMG_20131230_184902.jpg (CNC_Prototyper)

Interesting.
But had to do some searching to find what you were talking about.
PnP means Press and Peel.
So if you do a search on " press peel " at that site, you'll find it right away.
I'll have another look shortly to see if this stuff is available over here in Europe, or if those guys will ship to Europe (at affordable rates).

I've seen it referred to before 'Press n Peel Blue' but not used it myself.

When I was using toner transfer I ended up using self adhesive vinyl, which seems to have the same properties but is a lot cheaper.

Print to a normal sheet of paper first to get a position for your design. Cut a patch of self adhesive vinyl a bit bigger than the print area. Run the paper back through so the design is printed on the vinyl patch. Iron/Laminate on then let cool and peel off. You can achieve 100% transfer with vinyl.

I was buying 10 A4 sheets on eBay Uk for the equivalent of about 5USD.

See the following thread for examples of quality. DIY PCB transfer media - General Electronics - Arduino Forum

I tried this stuff myself and had extremely poor results from it. I could never get the toner to transfer to the bare circuit board without missing areas. So while others appear to get the peel and iron working, I never could.

I use positive printed artwork with photo sensitive coated boards, then UV exposure and developer. Made hundreds of boards this way and only a few failed because I didn't develop them properly. Cost wise it's probably more but considering the toner transfer stuff I've wasted, it's closer to even cost for me... :slight_smile:

I never thought of sign vinyl, but I am a bit hesitant to put something with such a low melt point into my brand new Brother printer.
The OEM site is http://www.techniks.com

I used something I bought a while back that printed onto paper, you heat-transfer the results (the toner) to a PCB board, and then put it into acid. That part all worked, what I stumbled on was the holes. Drilling (say) 28 holes of the correct size, the exact distance apart and in a straight line, totally defeated me. How did you solve that?

The vinyl works fine. I've run loads of it through HP laser and modified laminator (180-200 dec c) with no problems.

I use a mini rotary tool and the etched holes to center and drill fine by hand. It's one of those things that gets easier with practice.

One trick you can use is a piece of strip board or vero board as a template. Line up over DIP holes and drill through as a jig.

I never managed to get the iron stuff to work to my satisfaction but kudos to those that can.

For drilling holes, I center etch and use a small standard drill press with a chuck that holds the numbered drills. The hard part was finding a three jaw chuck that would close down tight on center, hold a numbered bit and still run true. I light the drilling area with a ring of LED's and use a floor operated puffer to clear the drill area as needed.

With the center hole etch the drill finds its target a lot easier.

I tried the Dremel drill press but I found there's too much slop in it. Plus my boards are 1/16" FR-4 boards and numbered bits don't last long even at slow Dremel speeds.

Sure beats using those resist ink pens and drawing the circuit out by hand and then hand drilling them like I did in the 60's...:slight_smile:

Nick, the secret ingredient you're looking for is a good tool. I bought myself a miniature proxxon drill machine as a christmas present. Drilling has never been so much fun :slight_smile:

http://www.proxxon.com/en/micromot/28128.php

Also, having a high quality pcb with clearly visible drilling spots marked in the center of pads helps a lot.

I have a small bench-top drill press that is used exclusively for PCB work, a Harbor freight model, and my drills are carbide pc drills also available from HF. Catch being they come in 10 pack random assortments, but buy enough and you have quite a working set of 1/8" shank carbide drills and mills. As far a centers go, make your PCB software use 25 mil for all drills even though you will use something larger or not. 25mil gives a nice pocket to center on.

That micro drill press is a beautiful thing. Our local makerspace is working on a mini CNC mill for this sort of work also. I'm excited to try that out along with the vinyl. Looks like this combo would be pretty close to perfect for prototypes. Just missing easy PTH, soldermask, and silkscreen for finished boards. (Is that all...)

There is a lot more to toner transfer than just ironing it on. Board prep is very important.

Years ago, after being frustrated by finding bits of information on making PCBs in dribs and drabs all over loads of different forums, I started a Yahoogroup just about making PCBs.

polymorph:
There is a lot more to toner transfer than just ironing it on. Board prep is very important.

I prep'd the boards, according to the instructions, I called the company that makes the product, and anyone who reported success. The company and I came to the conclusion that my Xerox laser wasn't going to put a thick enough coating on the paper. Not like the old HP lasers than shot it out like coal dust and ended like bas relief.

For "ironing", I even went as far as to modify a document sealer to apply the stuff. The best result I got was from a t-shirt press and an HP, but it wasn't mine so I just gave up because I'd wasted enough time it by then. For me it was never about making PCB's economically, just convenience.

Thus, I pulled the plug on the whole idea and I went back to MG Chemicals and their process. I stopped spraying my own photo resist on the PCB's quite a while ago and just use MG's presensitized boards now. Print out the artwork 1:1 on mylar with a laser and expose it for 10 minutes, develop it, toss it in the warmed Ferric and about 8 or 9 minutes after that, the board is done.

When I shoot 10 or 20 boards, I lay them out on the mylar, expose, develop and etch the same way but they are all on one sheet of PCB. I then drill the whole thing and then use a bandsaw with a metal blade to cut them into individual boards.

PetriH:
Nick, the secret ingredient you're looking for is a good tool. I bought myself a miniature proxxon drill machine as a christmas present. Drilling has never been so much fun :slight_smile:

PROXXON - TBM 220

I've looked at the Proxxon a number of times, online because no one locally carries it. I like the small size, but I was wondering, do you use the collets for the bits or the regular chuck on it?

I've also heard some say that it's noisy, so what's your opinion? Is it noisy, loud or?

Some people swear by toner transfer, others swear at it. Lots of people on Homebrew_PCBs are using the photo process. Some are printing Epson pigmented inks directly onto PCBs as etch resist, but you -must- bake it or it washes off. I've cut vinyl in a sign cutter and used it as etch resist. Some have even cut out thin sticky-back copper foil and stuck it onto blank boards.

polymorph:
Some people swear by toner transfer, others swear at it. Lots of people on Homebrew_PCBs are using the photo process. Some are printing Epson pigmented inks directly onto PCBs as etch resist, but you -must- bake it or it washes off. I've cut vinyl in a sign cutter and used it as etch resist. Some have even cut out thin sticky-back copper foil and stuck it onto blank boards.

Trying to envision how one would go about feeding a PCB into an Epson printer is fascinating.. Cut a hole in the center and put it on the CDROM tray? Sounds inventive to say the very least.

Using sign vinyl sounds novel too. All of a sudden I feel very old fashioned...LOL

Actually, you cut out the part of the CD tray that fits the center hole, then you can put in the insert for business card CDs and make your boards that size. Or trim corners into the carrier to fit Eagle sized boards. Or there is a gentleman selling LASER cut holders and precut blank PCBs to match.

Sign vinyl doesn't go down too fine, so you can't really etch the holes for through-hole, or very small surface mount. It gets very difficult to weed. I did make a bunch of 555 timer boards for some fake geiger counter circuits for a panel I did at a sci fi convention a few years ago using vinyl. Not to be confused with using vinyl as a toner carrier for toner transfer.

wabbitguy:
I've looked at the Proxxon a number of times, online because no one locally carries it. I like the small size, but I was wondering, do you use the collets for the bits or the regular chuck on it? I've also heard some say that it's noisy, so what's your opinion? Is it noisy, loud or?

I use the fixed size collets that came with the drill. The 0.8mm and 1mm bits I'm using fit perfectly to one of the collets. I'm probably going to buy the separate regular chuck too in case I need bits with variable sized shafts - changing the collet is a little bit cumbersome although changing the drill bits is quite snappy. So far I've been using just one of the collets and there are 6 different sizes that come in the box.

About the noise, it's not as silent as they market so I was a little surprised about it initially but now I'm perfectly okay with it. I'm using it in the corner of our living room where my workbench is located (we have a small flat) and the missus can't complain because her sewing machine is actually louder than the Proxxon. I wouldn't say it's noisy/loud and you certainly do not need ear protection.

EDIT: and if you end up buying the Proxxon, make sure you adjust the belt to the fastest 8500 rpm setting. The small drill bits zip through the fiberglass unbelievably quickly and easily with that setting :slight_smile:

Oh, magnificent new year to everybody on the forums! May the new year bring many hours of happy hacking and tinkering to you!

SirNickity:
.... Just missing easy PTH, soldermask, and silkscreen for finished boards. (Is that all...)

See a post I made on another forum which shows soldermask and silkscreen achievable.

http://www.btinterface.com/BTInterface/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=66

I sell tinning solution and dry film solder mask on eBay. I also have the foil for white silkscreen but haven't got round to writing the instructions yet to list it.

I now use a mix of toner transfer via vinyl and laminating dry film photoresist for UV method. Which I use depends on urgency and trace size/board detail. A laminator is still required for the photoresist, soldermask, silkscreen application and white silkscreen foil application, so sometimes it's just easier to toner transfer via vinyl and laminator.