New Web Based IDE

I am curious to know how the new web base ide is going to work for anyone intending to teach an arduino based microcontroller course to students in remote Africa (for example) or more generally any place where internet connection is less than 100% reliable or possibly even non existant ?

Will the "traditional" style IDE be maintained to the same level? Or are there "local" IDE components that will remain functional even if there is no internet connection?

@ Tombrough.

I think you sort of answered your own question if you break it down.

if there is no global net access there is no WW web based functionality.

Better to stick to traditional method of get the IDE and install it local to attain full use when no net access is available.

However if they release the whole package to be available in an "intranet" environment then that would be a massive boon for educational purposes and the Arduino ecosystem as a whole.

It will be interesting to see as they are behind the times a little. There are already web based IDE's for the Arduino. Eg. Codebender. There are a couple more too and some have collaboration available too IIRC.

I would swap to a real Arduino based / owned web end as its sorta like keeping it all under the same roof and if they include a collaboration feature akin to GIT HUB forks etc that would be even better.

We will have to wait for the official opening so until then its all rumour and hear say LOL

I can’t understand the enthusiasm for wasting internet bandwidth on applications that can work perfectly on a standalone system.

It’s a bit like if the only place to write a school or college essay was while traveling by train.

…R

@ Robin2

Its hardly a waste if you are not capped but I hear you. and for those with connectivity issues there are always the stand alone fall backs.

Not like its not been done in a much lesser form by Arduino anyway with FIRMATA or OTA for the wireless boards.
So in that regard its more of a natural progression of the platform.

Imagine being an academic at a school or college being able to monitor and assist student code development live within a group (assumes intranet / internet access) and compare code directly without having to read through every line if you already have a fully working copy of code.

The other thing is the IDE is not available for EVERY platform right now so it may be a way to get to a wider section of people, It adds functionality to the tablet market and some of the phone market too.

Another thought is if I am not at my bench but maybe on a train or a plane I could rough up a chunk of code whilst the idea is still fresh in my mind. And if they have simulation options being able to at least test your code.

Fact that all the libs and board defs/cores would be up to date and already available without having to drop out of the IDE would be a great feature. Means that if you downloaded some code you don't have to go hunt the lib either.

That would also improve the debug of the libs and cores on a quality POV too as they would have to be tested a little more before release.

Hopefully it would also improve the IDE itself as well so we don't have to skip versions or backtrack to older versions like we currently do. Not quite ISO standard but heading towards a set of of defined parameters and a tighter framework and a single IDE instead of three (PC, MAC, LINUX)

That in turn would lessen the burden on the troubleshooting sections of the forums by taking out so many of the more common questions. ("burden" may be the wrong word but I think you see what I mean)

My hope is that they make it as backward compatible as they can which should be pretty easy with a web based approach and that they continue to add non arduino boards. CODEBENDER has a nice selection with community requests for add in boards.

The way I see it there are more plus than minus for it and until its opened up and we see what we have we are all just stabbing in the dark.

I am sure I would also keep my local IDE's too so I would hope they add an option into them to link into the newer web based ones.

The only thing we know for sure is that its coming sooner rather than later.

Ballscrewbob:
Its hardly a waste if you are not capped

That's not the sense in which I meant that it is wasteful.

Even if you have "all you can eat" data an online IDE imposes extra traffic across the internet and thus the internet requires bigger and faster servers and more fibre-optic links and more energy to power it all. These things all cost money and consume natural resources. And it is totally unnecessary when you can run the IDE on your laptop or desktop PC.

The internet should be kept free for things that you can't do on your PC - such as Google searches or downloading programs.

...R

Go on Robin I will bite LOL.

So lets say the average sketch is around 3-10 KB plus whatever overhead is used in a code text box and most pictures fired up and down to social media are about 3-10 Mb plus overhead, it places the network usage of an IDE pretty low on the totem pole. Maybe in the range of ye olde BBS

Even a few minutes googling can rack up quite a lot in terms of both storage and network bandwidth especially with all the side adverts etc when you go on most sites. Just the spider effect required by many websites to serve so much useless junk creates IMHO an excessive use of bandwidth by many many sites.
In many cases its not like you only download one version of a picture in an advert or from FB or Google there can be as many as three if you count the placeholder icons.

An its not like the amount of people using an online IDE is going to surpass Facebook etc.
The whole world is not gonna start learning to code overnight just because Arduino gives them that ability.

I would have figured that as such an esteemed member you would be for this move.
Your aim in finding a bandwidth target / hog is probably better directed outside Arduino arena at such as google, fb, ebay, ad infinitum.

B.

In my experience, complex web-based functions are always faster and more responsive than any program running locally.

Say you've got a classroom full of kids all coding away. Gone is the need to scuttle back and forth, speaking with every student personally. Maybe we can hire a company in India to administer the class. Of course, Arduino coding always has a hardware component, so we'll just enable the webcams so the students can get remote hardware help. From this forum!

That was sarcasm.

This is a dumb idea. Online IDEs for any system are an interesting curiosity, but does anyone use them exclusively? At first I thought, Great! I can code on my pad! But then I realized the Arduino doesn't connect to the pad. :frowning:

Ahhh I hadn't thought about the pad (all pads ?) not connecting to anything arduino related I mean nobody uses WiFi nowadays anymore. Nah there isn't any USB connectivity on any pads either so that's a bummer too.

Really whats wrong with a good old fashioned db25 serial or parallel port. They were good enuff fer my generation and anyone who says otherwise is a new age techno heretic.

I mean who would have thought an Arduino could even consider having WiFi or using an OTG cable to connect to anything other than a PC based piece of hardware (any flavour)

Am not a Luddite but I don't think this mobile computing lark will ever catch on. And as for those portable phone things they are never going to replace my trusty rotary phone. I don't care of you can use em past the end of the street...

That guy with the Bluetooth had better stop sucking on his ballpoint pen too it cant be good for you all that ink.

Gonna stick with my trusty 286.

As much as it irks some of us to have to use any more than an Osborne luggable as our portable computing device technology moves along either with or without us.

(puns and sarc fully intended) ;D

And to answer your point about the pad not being able to connect to a "pad"

So you have this great idea on lets say on holiday or some other extended period away from home or downtime and you just type it into your "pad" and then when you get home you open the web IDE on your PC and hey presto there is the work you have already done ready to be tested. It magically went from you typing on your pad into "THE CLOUD" and then even more mysteriously appeared at home ready for you when you logged in.

Haha, love it Bob!

However, using technology just to take a step forward, when it has little real benefit, is not the best use of the technology.

What is the intended use for moving the IDE to the web? How will this make my use of the IDE better?

Some of the points I made earlier seem like pretty good reasons in and of them selves Chris.
A lot is going to depend on what it is actually capable of right from the outset.
My wish would be that Arduino don't rush it like they did the MKR or the recent rash of IDE's.

And as much as your post was sarc there was more than a grain of good in there and I only got the sarc when you mentioned outsourcing to India.

Not saying that both stand alone installations and web based cant co-exist either.
And no I cannot say for sure its for everyone either.
After all I did say I would probably keep my installs too.

I don't really like "THE CLOUD" but its maturing and one way or another its becoming the "norm"
My pet peeve with the cloud is that it is becoming "pay per view". Take AZURE for instance or BLYNK.
Real open source "cloud" with any major presence is pretty scarce.

Think the IOT side of things will drive a good chunk of that at which point web based IDE's and interfaces will be something me and you have to deal with.

Having been into IT as an extended hobby since MK14's, PET's etc I consider myself something of a dinosaur with a little experience in trending technology patterns and this is one I would rather be comfortable with than having to fight to understand.

Well thanks Bob.

I'm sure it's a-happenin' and I will probably use it once it's here. For my personal use, I want to keep it all on my machine. At school, I dunno - we'll cross that bridge when they march us across it.

ps, I never had an MK14, but I did have an AIM65. They were pretty similar weren't they?

Ballscrewbob:
So lets say the average sketch is around 3-10 KB plus whatever overhead is used in a code text box and most pictures fired up and down to social media are about 3-10 Mb plus overhead, it places the network usage of an IDE pretty low on the totem pole.

I agree completely.

Just because it is small does not justify waste.

I will refrain from comment about the value of social media.

...R

I'm not a big fan of the trend of moving everything to the "cloud" but I do see some uses for the web based IDE even though I don't plan to ever use it. The problem I have with Arduino Create is that a tremendous amount of development effort has been directed towards it that could have been used to fix serious bugs in the regular IDE and errors in the arduino.cc content instead.

pert:
The problem I have with Arduino Create is that a tremendous amount of development effort has been directed towards it that could have been used to fix serious bugs in the regular IDE and errors in the arduino.cc content instead.

+10.

I just wish I had thought of that comment :slight_smile:

This is not just an Arduino problem. In all walks of life people prefer working on new stuff rather than making the old (and perfectly adequate) stuff work better.

...R

Well, let's see.

The advantage of the "cloud" is the ability to "work anywhere". To implement this sort of arrangement, I could consider setting up a (my own) Firefox sync server in order that every Firefox I used would have the same context. It would be nice to have matching access to the links and stored cut-and-past comments that I use to give "boilerplate" replies here to the same question. That is the most general benefit.

And that said by the way, there is the problem with "forum" or discussion boards - the lack of effective FAQs. A Wiki format of help would be more useful where by an editing process, the best answers bubbled to the top instead of generating ridiculously long "stickys" - it seems we don't actually have that for the Arduino, at least on this site.

The second "cloud" advantage is off-site backup. Note that this presumes a prerequisite on-site backup.

So the disadvantages? Principally reliability and security. Passing over security, accessibility as pointed out, is a component of reliability. All very well at home with ADSL (or fibre, which our Australian government does not presently want us to enjoy), but GSM access is expensive (and less than universal) for real data and "free" WiFi hotspots somewhat rare. The point is, if you cannot rely on access, then the cloud turns to rain.

And of course, most cloud services are not actually "free". No such thing as a free lunch. The more general concern is that you are renting rather than buying, and that - the rental price - almost completely at the whim of the landlord.

@ Paul

The “anywhere” aspect is possibly one of the more useful functions I can see and being able to set up your own mini cloud or intranet based version is something that interests me.

Have seen some forums that allow macro functions to store “boilerplate” responses so I know it can be done with relative ease. Based on many of the responses many of you use they are often similar and I agree you could make use of something to allow you to drop in a reply then just tweak it to suit the individual requirements.

Think I would agree with the forum needing an overhaul for sure.
My pet peeve on that aspect is the “search” which jumps to google and I am sure confuses some people.
Searches should be “in house”

Followed closely by your point on the answers being sorted a lot better. Its pretty clear from the questions that most people (myself included on occasion) don’t dig much past the first couple of pages or use the search function nearly as much as they should.

As to the security aspect I would hope that decent authentication is used. We hear all to often of data breaches and I am sure there are many many more that go un-reported.

Reliability comes back down to being able to work on or off line as the individual situation dictates or chooses. Even here in Canada I still come across many areas where internet or cell phone coverage is zero.
With that in mind I would hope that they include the ability to keep local storage that will sync when people are back in areas with coverage / service.

CLOUD = MONEY…Yep I hear you on that one…100% agreement…enuff said.

Paul__B:
Passing over security,

Hold on moment...

How do we know that the cloud servers are not actually controlled by the Mafia (of whatever nationality most worries you).

I certainly have no intention of putting my data in a room where some other guy can spend 24/7 cracking my codes and viewing my stuff.

...R

I think the reason I chose to “pass” on security is pretty obvious. :grinning:

Dang it why does this keep showing as NEW when I already read it like zillions of times (ok maybe 3 or 4)

Note to Forum peeps… ya gotta set the read counters a little better so I stop looking at stuff I already read , readed, red, looked at, viewed, seen it done it T shirt, etc.

BTW passing on security…never a good thang…jus sayin… Wikileaks and all that good stuff and the guy hidin in russia. Wait so if somebody can see that I wrote code to blink and I messed up…nah ain’t nobody inturestid in my (bleeped before mod gets it).

I was just invited to try it out. (but had to send a email because it won't let me in)

It will be nice to be able to code when I'm away from my PC as I often have downtime at work or have inspiration and want to preserve it before I forget.

I generally avoid anything cloud based, particularly if it's personnel but I look at my code with an open source outlook and if I did have a project I didn't want let loose in the wild I wouldn't use it for that.

Looking forward to trying it out at least.