Proposal: Newbie Guide for Electronics

I propose we create a newbie rule guide for this forum that we can make sticky and point beginners to that might help cover 90% of the problems on this site. A sort of top 20 newbie rules thing.

Here is few examples of what I have in mind.

Rule #1: Always use decoupling capacitors. At least one decoupling capacitor should be used for each power pin on each IC and be placed as close to the power and ground pins of the IC as possible. If you have not done this yet, do not post a question on this site.

Rule #2: When connecting signals from two different circuits, you must always make sure adequate ground connections are made between the two circuits. It is not enough just to connect the signals alone. Ignoring this rule can cause damage to one or both circuits and will certainly cause 'interesting' behavior.

Rule #3: Always use an adequate power supply. Make sure you understand the power requirements of your project and use a supply that will easily handle these requirements. In other words, do not try to run Ethernet interfaces, relays, motors or servos as well as your Arduino off of one of those small 9V rectangular batteries. It's just not going to work.

Whud'yall thank, huh?

Electronics is a very complex subject and many visiting don't even know Ohm's Law. There are plenty of resources on the web and people point to the appropriate one often so this would be a duplication of work and you would have people reading through 19 unrelated items.

outofoptions:
Electronics is a very complex subject and many visiting don't even know Ohm's Law. There are plenty of resources on the web and people point to the appropriate one often so this would be a duplication of work and you would have people reading through 19 unrelated items.

I don't know, is it better for 19 people to read and answer the same questions over and over, such as "why is my 74hc595 turning on more pins than I expect"? I don't think it would hurt the newbie to read a dozen or two things to know whether they apply right now or not, one being 25mA is too much of a load for one pin, and another being that you can't power up the world using the on-board supply. Ohm's Law could be the first entry on the list. :wink:

afremont:

outofoptions:
Electronics is a very complex subject and many visiting don't even know Ohm's Law. There are plenty of resources on the web and people point to the appropriate one often so this would be a duplication of work and you would have people reading through 19 unrelated items.

I don't know, is it better for 19 people to read and answer the same questions over and over, such as "why is my 74hc595 turning on more pins than I expect"? I don't think it would hurt the newbie to read a dozen or two things to know whether they apply right now or not, one being 25mA is too much of a load for one pin, and another being that you can't power up the world using the on-board supply. Ohm's Law could be the first entry on the list. :wink:

Would it be any easier to point people to a new FAQ than existing references that are now used?

outofoptions:
Would it be any easier to point people to a new FAQ than existing references that are now used?

If it was all in one place, I can see the benefit in that, as opposed to telling them, to learn about this, go here; to learn about that, go there ...

On the other hand, I also agree with your point, there are so many references all over the place already, and I'm not talking about just the myriad of forums on here, but also on the web in general. If there's one thing I would always tell people to do BEFORE asking questions, is to research the issue first, using tools such as the forum's search function and the all-mighty, all-knowing Google. Of course, everyone already does that, right? RIGHT? :slight_smile:

That's what I was thinking, one place to look would be a lot easier to verify and maintain. The verification part being quite important IMO. It's frustrating seeing how many folks think that 40mA is a perfectly fine amount of current to draw from a pin because it's "in the specs" and posted all over the place. Unfortunately, that's a gross misinterpretation of "the specs". I'd like to see this pointed out better and in one place along with a few other basics about grounding, fusing and decoupling caps.

afremont:
That's what I was thinking, one place to look would be a lot easier to verify and maintain.

When I was president of out astronomy club and someone had an idea that involved work of some type the first question was, "Are YOU willing to do it?" If the issue came to a vote I'd say if "Don't vote yes unless you are going to participate" and told the secretary to take names of those voting yes. You can guess how many projects I killed that way.

My advice would be that anyone that thinks this is a good idea should simply get together and cobble something together and see how it works. Don't get me wrong. I am not passing judgment on the idea. I am an avid reader and have followed many of the links suggested and they have been invaluable. If you do this project you might consider just the bare board basics, much of which is covered in the tutorials if someone actually follows along with them, and you could also include the links currently used.

DirtBiker:
I propose we create a newbie rule guide for this forum that we can make sticky and point beginners to that might help cover 90% of the problems on this site. A sort of top 20 newbie rules thing.

Here is few examples of what I have in mind.

Rule #1: Always use decoupling capacitors. At least one decoupling capacitor should be used for each power pin on each IC and be placed as close to the power and ground pins of the IC as possible. If you have not done this yet, do not post a question on this site.

Whud'yall thank, huh?

And herein lies the problem: To do something like this justice (if you're truly looking to inform a newbie), you have to make sure you refrain from using jargon, or at least when you use jargon you point to where it's defined.

For instance, assume I'm a newbie (not far from the truth) and have no technical knowledge whatsoever (not quite true... but close enough). In your #1, a newbie would read that and immediately wonder what is a "decoupling capacitor" and how is it different from the brownish disk capacitors and the bluish cylindrical capacitors that I got in my really cool starter set? And if i have to put one of these new capacitors in the power pins, why didn't i get them in the really cool starter set?

Just to let you know more about me... I'm an engineer, but not electrical. I "got through" my electronics classes by converting everything to pipe flow and going from there. I'm also a firm believer that electronics run on smoke and that when you let the smoke out of the pipes/wires, you will have to hire someone to fix the leak and put the smoke back in... :slight_smile:

And to bring it all back around, I have no idea what a "decoupling capacitor" is...

dean_1230:
And herein lies the problem: To do something like this justice (if you're truly looking to inform a newbie), you have to make sure you refrain from using jargon, or at least when you use jargon you point to where it's defined.

That could be fixed with a line or 2 of extra explanation to introduce the jargon. The newbie is going to see that jargon all over the place so it's probably a good thing to use it and explain it.

My 3 examples were not meant to be end product ready, just discussion starters. I could see additional explanation and simple diagrams/pictures etc... to help make things clearer.

@outofoptions

Are YOU willing to do it?"

I am sure that encouraged lot's of people (not). But I guess if killing creative thought is your thing, then who am I to argue.

In any case, from my perspective, I'd certainly be willing to contribute. However, I'd expect many of the senior members of this forum to contribute as well. The last thing I would want to do is spend 20 hours of my time doing up the whole list only to have 50 people's opinions on how to change everything.

A better approach would be have 10 or 20 people volunteer to suggest and take on one to two topics, produce their document for inclusion and and make any reasonable changes before calling it a done deal.

The initial publication could be from 10 to 20 rules, and any additions could be produced by those who feel they need to be added. One or more global moderators could be the final judges on what makes it in and what does not.

DirtBiker:

Are YOU willing to do it?"

I am sure that encouraged lot's of people (not). But I guess if killing creative thought is your thing, then who am I to argue.

What I did was discourage people from suggesting ideas that they fully expected to do no work on. That did not kill creativity. It killed sillyness.

In any case, from my perspective, I'd certainly be willing to contribute. However, I'd expect many of the senior members of this forum to contribute as well.

And this is EXACTLY my point. You have the right to ask senior forum members, you have not right to expect them to contribute. Many of them have done this kind of work and simply point people to their own websites when appropriate. That way they can maintain complete control over what is said and don't have to worry about "50 people" wanting to make changes as you have pointed out.

outofoptions:
...you have not right to expect them to contribute.

Ahhh, I think I see the problem here. You seem be confusing the term 'expect' with the term 'demand'.

I did ask (first post) and since it's my idea, I do have the right to 'expect' others to contribute if it is to proceed with my participation. Well, it's obvious by now that they do not want to contribute or even sound in on this conversation, in fact, it appears as I am the only one that wishes to contribute.

So, my expectations have not been met. Now I have the right to can it. Folks can continue to answer the same question(s) over and over again. I guess it's what gives meaning to their lives. Even a one trick pony likes to preform. Sorry if that sounds mean, and it does not apply to all, but it certainly applies to some.

I've been doing various lists and email lists for years. You can't change human nature. People will ask for help and some will answer. That is their choice to make. You call it being a "one trick pony". Some call it being helpful or kindness.

The overall concept is not bad. It just won't do what you want/expect.

What about the cards being produced by pighixxx

They seem to be growing into a really nice beginners reference.


Rob

One of the problems with a "beginner's guide" is defining what you mean by "beginner"?

If all you're looking for is a general guide on how to connect components, then things like the above-mentioned cards do a great job in holding one's hand. In this case, a "beginner" has a significant understanding of electronics and only needs practical information of how to put things together.

If, however, the beginner doesn't understand the "why", then the "how" makes little difference in getting something to work. Again, (and strictly as an example) going from the OP, if we want this guide to discuss "why" we need a decoupling capacitor, then that's a much more theoretical exercise, and trying to explain that will involve a lot of editing so that the simplifications made in order to make it accessible don't create a misrepresentation of how the device works. In some ways, Wikipedia is a great source for this type of "why" information at the component level. For instance, the wiki page of transistors does a good job of explaining what it does and why they're so useful.

With all of this said, in my 25+ years of engineering I've found very few people who can make the "why" accessible to the novices.

dean_1230:
With all of this said, in my 25+ years of engineering I've found very few people who can make the "why" accessible to the novices.

I decided to review my calculus a while back. I wish that bearded guy wearing flannel shirts was available on youtube when I took calculus originally. I think that is why this type of project isn't really getting much interest though. The good stuff bubbles to the top and people are accustomed to directing to it.