Provide a "Feedback" that is pointed at Arduino, not the community

I would like a way to privately provide feedback to the Arduino group that explains why people are dumping the Arduino IDE and Arduino hardware due to lack of appropriate docs and inability to make things work. Please consider a feedback link at the bottom of the page so those of us who are leaving the solution for those that are easier to work with, more standardized, have functional tool chains, and reasonable documentation.

My opinion is that Arduino has struggled to move from whatshisname's academic thesis level of operation to working in the real, pro world

...isn't part of the mission statement, as I read it

but can be used for that.

Perhaps not, but the real world is, well, real, nonetheless :wink:

Not everyone has an aptitude for electronics or programming, or both. So it's good that they find this out and are then free to explore their other talents. These people might blame something other than themselves for their failure, it's only human.

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Somewhat disingenuous, IMO, missing out your other adjective :wink:

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Thread moved to the appropriate section.

This is one of the big problems, IMO. The official documentation at is often lacking or outdated, especially regarding the commonest libraries. One has to peek inside the source code of the libraries to sort thing out, but this is not something a beginner or a casual user would do.

One complaint I have, besides that, is the silly name they gave to analogWrite(): many people first think that the board is outputting a truly analogue signal, when it really is a PWM signal. The fact that there are now arduino boards with true analogue output does nothing to clarify the matter.

I often wondered, and never figured out, why they didn't pick a more sensible name, something like pwmWrite().** The old analogWrite() should be provided as an alias to pwmWrite() (so existing code will not be broken), and new use of analogWrite() should to be deprecated.

** Maybe they liked the apparent symmetry between analogRead() and analogWrite(), but I still think they made a poor choice, especially on a system geared towards hobbyists and learners.

But wannabes…

I think the best channel to use for that is the "Contact Us" form here:

It is there already.

Really? What's wrong with the toolchain? It is, after all, gcc, one of the most commonly used toolchains in existence...

I'd prefer to see your comments made publicly.
You know, so that we can argue with you! (probably exactly why you want the private channel...)
(oh - you did that in Jan 2020, and then ghosted the conversation...)

Some of the Things that make life easy for the beginner, Just as a few example:
The way libraries are chosen for you regardless of the use of "" versus <> in the include in case of conflict
The cumbersome .ino fusion process
The auto declaration of forward functions
The impossibility of modifying compile flags easily
The non standard (makefile based) compilation process
The clunkiness of the IDE like no debugging support (2.0 will help as it addresses some)

Of course you can use alternate compilation methods.

I wouldn't call any of those "the toolchain", but rather the IDE itself, or maybe "the build process."
Isn't the toolchain the set of (major) tools that the IDE and build process use to do the actual work (ie g++, gcc, gld...)
(For example, the "toolchains" associated with Microchip Studio with be avr-gcc or xc8 (or arm-none-eabi-gcc or xc32?))

I think the point is that Arduino is aimed at beginners, learners, students, hobbyists and those whose primary interest is something other than micro-controllers. Those are the people from whom it is valuable to get feedback on the ease of use of the various tools and software. If it works for them then it's good.

This discussion reminds me of the new defunct Maplin Electronic Supplies in the UK. They started as a hobby supplier, and in their day were reasonably good. They did venture into providing the professional market but were hopeless alongside the likes of RS and Farnell etc. I'm not saying Arduino should not address the professional market, but I am saying that to do so is a big step and not easy to get right.

I'm curious as to what special information you have and where you go it. Have you done a survey perhaps? Maybe you are a university professor or similar with an electronics lab and have lots of feedback from students? Other than your own opinion, from where are you gathering the information that leads you to your conclusion? I would think you'd need some form of contact with a lot of dis-satisfied Arduino users in order to have gathered sufficient information to be useful.

That’s one definition

A software toolchain is a set of software development tools used in combination with one another to complete complex software development tasks or to deliver a software product

So the IDE is part of the tool chain

40+ years in the software/hardware business... My thoughts can be summarized as "its ok to provide a simple IDE to get people started, but don't obfuscate it to the point of being unusable for the advanced user. " I respect the fact that this can be difficult at times. I stopped using the Arduino IDE some years ago until recently being forced into it by a specific processor. Bastardized language and "hidden magic" are not a good basis for students. (Again, my opinion).

Maybe, maybe not, but from my reading of Arduino history it was not intended for students. Or rather, not for computing science students. It was supposed to be accessible for artists and other people without a technical background or a particular interest in techie stuff, but who want to make interactive devices.

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Thank you but to my mind that isn't at all what you said before:

Explains why people are dumping the Arduino IDE and Arduino hardware

Your earlier comment suggests you have knowledge of why some / many / a lot of people are doing this, but now it seems to be just you.

I am not Arduino, I am one of the helpers on here, so I do not speak for Arduino. Lots of people seem to get a lot out of Arduino, but it is clearly not right for everyone for many reasons. If Arduino fixed the thing that concern you then some other aspect of the project would not suit someone else who currently benefits from it. It cannot be all things to everyone, it is what it is. Some love it, some hate it and probably most people don't know what it is. Such is life.

If you are an advanced user and are aware of other more advanced software tools then use the tools that suit you best. I use Microchip's MPLABX for a lot of my projects. The Arduino IDE and MPLABX, as I am sure you know, are completely different beasts. I am perfectly happy to use either as appropriate.

I find it hard to believe there is any processor out there that can only be programmed with the Arduino IDE. For that to be true a chip manufacturer would have had to make a processor with the Arduino IDE in mind as the means by which it would be programmed. This seems unlikely.

OK, so we are back to my original comment, this is not about 'why people are dumping the Arduino IDE', it is about what you personally think about them.

If it's not for you, fine, don't use it, use something else you do like.