Re: Iteaduino BT V1.1 - Issues

Please help I need this to work for my school project. Thank you in advance

pito was too kind and did not fuss about you asking for assistance on the Official Arduino Forum for a clone board. We all understand the cost concerns for a student, but there is value to purchasing hardware from vendors that are affiliated with Arduino:

Most of the members here are understanding, but there is NO GUARANTEE that you will get a timely response unless you have a standard hardware board.

Ray

..asking for assistance on the Official Arduino Forum for a clone board

I do not think that must be an issue here.. Arduino is an open source project, afaik..

I do not think that must be an issue here.. Arduino is an open source project, afaik..

Yes, and I agree it is Open Source. But OS does not mean "open season" to abuse the Arduino infrastructure by building clone products that are marketed as "Arduino" at low prices since the manufacturer is not having to include any support resources. While it is not illegal, it is abusive and undercuts real Arduino hardware sales. IMO, Open Source is intended to allow advanced user the opportunity to study and modify the source and to change the code to fit a new/evoluntary purpose.

It is the popularity of the Arduino and the faithful purchasers and license revenues that provides funding for this forum. A less healthy ecosystem would be unable to sustain the abuse.

So my point is simply that it one expects product support they should buy a real Arduino OR use the manufactory's website and support structures; example: both Adafruit and Sparkfun have active and healthy forums and they give back and evolve the art by designing, coding, and licensing the logo.

Children should be taught well.

Opinion by Ray

Not sure you do understand the arduino's mission.. Arduino is about sw, not hw..

Respectfully:

...
The authorized manufacturers pay a small royalty to Arduino to keep the project going (pay for the servers, the people who develop the software, design the hardware, write documentation and provide support, etc.). We sign contracts with them and all the authorised distributors that make sure they will replace any defective board should the customer receive a product they feel is not working properly.
...
There is also a hazy cloud of products that call themselves “Arduino-compatible” but their actual compatibility is sometimes really marginal.
We go from products that have a semi-compatible port of the Arduino API but use very different processors, to boards that call themselves an “Arduino” just because they have a couple of connectors mechanically compatible with Arduino.
...
Finally there is a category of products that are really detrimental to the whole open-source hardware movement, we call these “counterfeits”.

These are boards that clone the official board including the Arduino branding (logo and board graphics). Since the Arduino graphics is trademarked and we don’t release any of the files, whoever uses our graphics and logo makes a deliberate act of Trademark infringement. These products not only trick people into thinking they are buying an official Arduino (therefore supporting the Arduino project) but they also provide no support. We’ve had many reports of people buying these products and finding out they are damaged but unfortunately for them the manufacturer is nowhere to be found to provide a replacement.
...
We believe firmly in open source hardware and we have always systematically released any hardware design and the software needed to reproduce our products. We think this advances the whole community and provides a platform for shared innovation where the advantages are more than the drawbacks, but we also think that Trademark violations are like identity theft: the same way each one of us wants to have the right to own their name we believe we have the right to decide whoever gets to be called Arduino, everything else is right there on Github for anybody to build upon.

"Iteaduino BT V1.1." does not violate Arduino's trademarks, afaik..
They claim they are "Arduino compatible", no Arduino logo there, a different pcb layout, the only stuff similar is the connector layout. Unless Arduino company holds a patent on the connector pin layout there is no violation of anything..

Arduino would never gain such popularity without those megatons of various hw designs floating around..

Arduino would never gain such popularity without those megatons of various hw designs floating around..

Clearly in my mind, the reason there are cheap, non-supported, clones is because it was Arduino open source h/w and s/w, Arduino infrastructure, Arduino support, the exponential product interest, and the large existing customer base that made non-licensed, Arduino-compatible'ish clones economically attractive. Not the other way around!

So, which came first - the Arduino or the Arduino clone?

Ray

All of the vendors I could find for Arduino BT were out of stock.

Not knowing any better, I bought the Iteaduino BT, because it was available for purchase.

Does Arduino have plans for increasing production to keep up with demand?

Iteadduino BT is not a clone of the Arduino BT; it's a significantly different product. Well within both the spirit and letter of the rules for derivative products, IMO.

Also, Arduino BT does NOT seem to be a current product. It does not appear on the official "Buy" page at Arduino.cc, only on the "older hardware" reference page.

To the theme of this thread... Food Fight... and Old Smelly Food at that...

Doc

@mrburnette, you are a bit out of line.

more on topic... the following link helped me understand how these modules work:

@mrburnette, you are a bit out of line.

I appreciate your opinion.

However,
Earlier, I linked to http://blog.arduino.cc/2013/07/10/send-in-the-clones/
quick is not my opinion. If you have a problem with that post, take it up with Massimo Banzi as he has expressed this opinion on multiple interviews and articles.

I use clones, lots of them. But I have official products that I develop on and I would never use thus forum to get help on a non-official / non-licensed product. My opinion, develop on official hardware... Then ask all the questions you need. When you have things working, port to the cheap hardware and if you have issues, you know it is the cheap hardware. Good luck.

Obviously, this does not mean not asking about small parts like RTC, thermisters, photocells, and such. I am only talking about boards and combo-boards like Ethernet and Bluetooth, etc.

Ray

I think you misinterpret that post.

Yes, the Arduino team gets pissed off when something calls itself 'Arduino' which is not. Yes, they are not happy about clones.

However the Arduino team greatly profits from companies like Adafruit or iTead releasing arduino compatible products (i.e. motor shield or bluetooth shield) which enhance the Arduino itself.

The product which OP is referring to is a product which fulfills a legitimate need, rather being a simple clone. iTead is neither infringing on Arduinos licences, nor on the spirit of Arduino by offering their BT version. (They do have some other things, where the situation is different... however in general they are one of the larger Chinese manufacturers which actually seem to have read the Arduino licence agreement.)

EDIT: To be completely clear:

This is a clone
http://dx.com/p/arduino-uno-r3-arduino-lcd-1602-keypad-shield-v2-0-lcd1602-expansion-board-building-blocks-265735#.Uuh_SRAo7IU

Not ok.

This here Is a 'Arduino compatible development board with an HM-05 module'
http://imall.iteadstudio.com/im120411006.html

The HM-05 is a super cool little module, I prefer it a lot over the module in the ArduinoBT. Also the ArduinoBT did not work all that well, and is, as far as I know not even for sale anymore.

mrburnette:

@mrburnette, you are a bit out of line.

I appreciate your opinion.

However,
Earlier, I linked to http://blog.arduino.cc/2013/07/10/send-in-the-clones/
quick is not my opinion. If you have a problem with that post, take it up with Massimo Banzi as he has expressed this opinion on multiple interviews and articles.

I use clones, lots of them. But I have official products that I develop on and I would never use thus forum to get help on a non-official / non-licensed product. My opinion, develop on official hardware... Then ask all the questions you need. When you have things working, port to the cheap hardware and if you have issues, you know it is the cheap hardware. Good luck.

Obviously, this does not mean not asking about small parts like RTC, thermisters, photocells, and such. I am only talking about boards and combo-boards like Ethernet and Bluetooth, etc.

Ray

Not just a bit out of line, but wrong. These forums are completely open, no requirement or expectation to buy even one piece of official hardware.
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=214161.msg1568193#msg1568193

mrburnette is simply expressing an opinion that it is courteous to support this forum by purchasing some of the official hardware.

There is no requirement to do this, however it is a reasonable opinion for him to hold.

Since when does "develop on official hardware." translate into, "it is courteous to support this forum by purchasing some of the official hardware"?
I'm pretty sure I didn't misinterpret it, so unless he misspoke...

And he's clearly claiming that it's not simply his opinion, rather it's the official word from Banzi. "take it up with Massimo Banzi"

And he's clearly claiming that it's not simply his opinion, rather it's the official word from Banzi. "take it up with Massimo Banzi"

THE SPECIFIC LINK

Please keep the content of the link separate from my opinions. The reason that I link to an official statement was because the issue of clones is complexed. Some clones license the Arduino trademark - that is good. Some clones are knock-off fake that try and sell themselves for profit by impersonating legitimate hardware - this is bad. In this world of clones, there is no gray, only black 'n white.

From the FAQ: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/FAQ

Most of the official Arduino boards are manufactured by SmartProjects in Italy. The Arduino Pro, Pro Mini, and LilyPad are manufactured by SparkFun Electronics (a US company). The Arduino Nano is manufactured by Gravitech (also a US company).

The official Arduino boards are the ones listed on the hardware page. These are boards whose manufacturers work with the Arduino team to ensure a good user experience, compatibility with the Arduino software, and a quality product. In return for their status as official boards, the manufacturers pay a licensing fee to the Arduino team to support the further development of the project.
In general, we restrict use of the name "Arduino" to the official boards. If you find a product under a different name but described as "Arduino compatible", it’s probably not an official board and doesn’t fund continued work on the project.
Read about Clones, Derivatives and Counterfeits by Massimo Banzi (Blog)
http://blog.arduino.cc/2013/07/10/send-in-the-clones/
Learn about how to spot a counterfeit (Website)

So, if it is not listed here: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Products?from=Main.Hardware
it is NOT OFFICIAL and NOT A LICENSED CLONE - the exception being the new Arduino Certified Intel Galileo.

Now, to the statement:

Since when does "develop on official hardware." translate into, "it is courteous to support this forum by purchasing some of the official hardware"?

That is exactly my opinion and it roughly parallels the opinion of Massimo Banzi in his Blog. Have you read it?

I am genuinely surprised by forum members lack of the understanding of the most basic of economics; someone must pay real cash to run this forum, buy servers, license software, and pay hardware administrators and other workers. This stuff is not free. Profit from the sale of true Arduino hardware and licensed clones is what generates that cash. If we do not support free enterprise, we will find ourselves like Wikipedia having to beg for donations. And those members too cheap to buy real hardware are very unlikely to be free enough with their moneys to give some away - rather, they will lurk in the darkness and get what they want by osmosis.

You support by buying a real product or licensed product or certified product in the hardware line that you are developing within... Uno/Nano/Mini/etc. for the 328, Mega2560 for the Atmega2560, Leonardo/Micro for the Atmega32U4 etc. For products that have no direct match into the Arduino family, such as the 1284, then we must use our best judgement. I support these by supporting members of this forum that donate a substantial amount of their time to the benefit of the forum.

NOWHERE can I find that ITead Studio is a good citizen in the Arduino environment.... If I am ignorant of them paying a licensing fee, please correct me with a link. I am not calling them bad, or good, but just a company that leverages the collective intelligence and good will of this forum and continuously refuses to provide any financial support. Would I buy a product from them? Yes, if I needed it but I would not utilize this forum in an effort to resolve an issue that I had with the product... I see non-supported as a warning flag to prospective buyers that they are on their own with ITead Studio - good luck with that.

But, this is just me and the way I operate. I don't like to see folks being cheap and then weighing down a freely provided infrastructure with their problems. It is the way I feel, I really do not care if members like the way I think or if they do not. I do not wish harm or evil or illness or even a tummy-ache or case of acne on anyone that does not feel as I feel, but it is my right to ask animatedly that the Arduino infrastructure be protected from cheapskates who buy on low-price and then annoy the heck out of the forum in an effort to resolve their self-created problem.

Opinion by,

M. Ray Burnette

mrburnette:
Now, to the statement:

Since when does "develop on official hardware." translate into, "it is courteous to support this forum by purchasing some of the official hardware"?

That is exactly my opinion and it roughly parallels the opinion of Massimo Banzi in his Blog. Have you read it?

Seems to me you're backtracking now to "it roughly parallels the opinion". That's very different from your original words recorded in this thread.

I am genuinely surprised by forum members lack of the understanding of the most basic of economics; someone must pay real cash to run this forum, buy servers, license software, and pay hardware administrators and other workers.

And now it seems you're resorting to condescension to veil a personal attack. i.e. I don't agree with you because I'm too stupid to understand the most basic of economics.
He who throws mud...

And now it seems you're resorting to condescension to veil a personal attack. i.e. I don't agree with you because I'm too stupid to understand the most basic of economics.
He who throws mud...

Ralph,
I have no reason to veil a personal attack, were I to attack you personally, I would have called-you-out by name. As it is, this is not about you - If you thought it was, sorry.

The problem here as I see it is that there are just too many forum members that do not understand that arduino.cc/forums are not a free service; which is to say they do not understand the economics of what has to happen in the background to allow them free access to the service. It is a big deal, I believe. I believe that Massimo Banzi also believes it is a big deal: I can find no fault with his logic. I did not form my opinions based solely on Mr. Banzi's rhetoric, but he has influenced me. I do not regurgitate his thoughts, I link to them to maintain the separation for the reader.

Maybe I let the community down by not explaining the double-definition of clone, my bad. Had they read Massimo's blog link, they would have understood without explanation. If ITead Studios want to be a good corporate citizen to the Arduino community they have multiple avenues to make this happen. As I indicated previously, if ITead is supporting Arduino, I can not find any reference to that.

Ray