The Moon is hard!


It hasn't been a good week for space. Intuitive Machines IM-2 Athena lander ended up on its side similarly to its sister IM-1. The asteroid mining probe launched earlier is not responding either.
The good news is that things were learned and the CLPS program costs 10% of what a normal NASA mission costs so the ROI is pretty sound.
I'm sure IM will persevere and get it right eventually.

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Yep, and the Starship v2 goes kaboom again! :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
Maybe Musk is too excited and busy with his new chainsaw toy... :wink:

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lol, maybe so. When I saw the guy up on the launch tower going after the chopstick rail with the angle grinder I couldn't help but think of Musk and his chainsaw.
In all fairness, Musk has little to do personally with SpaceX day to day but you can't help but wonder what effect his antics have on the employees.

He has always been a "quirky" and a bit "lunatic" type, but these are often characteristics of brilliant people. So as long as he limited himself to technology (not only SpaceX but also Tesla obviously) I considered him positively as a valid and brilliant innovator. Let's say a bit like Steve Jobs was.
But now that he has thrown himself into politics (which is by definition tied exclusively to power and money), implicitly denying his ecological vocation, and instead embracing Trump's politics made of oil, drilling, coal, and against electric mobility, well, he has very much surprised and disappointed me. Even if I'm not an american citizen.

Science and research horizontal "blind" budget cuts can (and will) put in danger current and next space explorations, but they're one of the faces of the dice, there are many other and important things affecting american people and the world stability. Cross fingers!

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To me, he seems to have gone a little loony. Hopefully, Trump, who also seems to have his loony days, will reel him in before he does too much damage.

I don't think so. Trump's level of stupidity is lower than Musk's. Trump is a mental fanatic who thinks he is the king of America (and of the entire world -except Russia-); Musk instead has just (!) serious problems relating to people, and a total lack of empathy together with other crazy behaviours (see how he named his -numerous- sons). But Trump needs Musk, for both his technology, money, and charisma.
But that's just my humble opinion, don't pay attention to it.

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No, I agree with your observations, particularly with Trump's level of stupidity. :grinning_face:

Even so, he seems to me to be acting more erratically than usual. Some may say it's just theater but I don't believe he understands theater in that way. I think his brain chemistry has gone a little awry and if he wasn't the world's richest person, he would be held more accountable.

Thanks, that's a cool pale-blue-dot pic:

Nice to see it’s visible from the South Pole. That may be the case all the time. I’m not really familiar with how the time/date affects that. Since there is no tilt to the Moon’s access it might not matter.

Looks like IM engineers missed Robot Wars series.
They should know a self-righting mechanism is a good (and winning) idea!! :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

The Earth in in the same place in the sky when viewed from the moon.

It will wiggle +/-6.68° up and down because the moon's axis isn't perpendicular to its orbital plane.

Yes, but at the poles it is low in the sky and I wasn't sure just how low.

Not any lower, at any one time, as it will be for the rest of the moon.

The Earth is directly overhead at the Moon's equator and right on the horizon at each of the poles. I was just musing if it was far enough South to be obscured by any geography near the landing site. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Well, from the south pole, every direction is North, and since the moon is about 1/2° wide from earth, and the earth is about 4x the diameter of the moon, the earth is about 2° wide in that pic.

And depending on exactly where in orbit that the picture was taken, it could move up to ~13 degrees, or 6.5 earth-widths up or down from there. I eyeball it at about 5.5 earth-widths above the horizon(?).

I'm not sure how to find out where the moon is on it's orbit around earth, and whether the center-of-mass of the earth is precisely on the moon's equatorial plane or 6.68° above or below.

Landing site: Mons Mouton per: IM-2 - Wikipedia

Geohack: GeoHack - Mons Mouton
Or Google Moon: Google Maps

but not if you are on the moon. Yes it can wobble over time like @DaveX said. But I said at any one time. This is a thing my students found surprising as well. It was why the moon rovers could simply communicate with Earth, as well as the experiments they left there. It is a matter of where you are, moon or Earth.

If you are on the moon and you are near enough to a pole, the Earth could be obscured by a mountain for example or even the horizon if you are close enough to the pole. If you are near the equator though, you would have to be standing under an overhang to not be able to see the Earth.
The photograph makes it clear that this lander is not far enough South to be obscured by anything.

yes this applies to anywhere on the moon, like at the bottom of a crater.

This is like other problems where the person asking the question refuses to accept the answer.

I will leave the post now.
Good luck with your concepts.

I'm just going to suggest spending 5 minutes with Stellarium.

Change your location to the moon's surface. Pick a spot near the equator. Find the Earth, then select the Time tool and advance by a day at a time. Observe the position and motion of the Earth.

Repeat with a spot near the south pole. Observe again.

Draw your own conclusions.

My two cents worth.

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