The raster device from a large photocopier - how would this work?

I dismantled a large office collating photo copier that I received free to remove from basement, which took all 3 of us a few hours to load into truck. I just got around to dismantling the blue photography drum that spun around the image projection.

Inside were a few LED strips on circuit boards, and this wonderful circuit board:

a close-up of the chips reveal "M6631FP"

nothing obvious shows up on a google search. I found a document for a SONY box, somewhere in there claims "LED DRIVER".

Sony graphic equalaizer

There is an array of square SOMETHINGS on the face. They look too large to be able to make a standard photo copy image. I measure .100" between each of the forward facing LEDS (if that is what they are).

Board also labeled "94VOTYPEB". There is also a transformer on the whole drum assembly, marked "dangerous" with safety boot connectors simular to ones found inside TV coils.

The device aimed against the spinning photo-blue drum. So I believe they must have been toggled to a pattern to make an image. At 12" in length, it is the size of maximum paper size copier 11" width.

I know laser printers use a Hexagon mirror to rasterize onto the photo-drum, which is clear that the tiny laser has enough resolution to form letters. I can not figure out how these HUGE .1" spaced LEDs could render an image to that drum. Does anyone have ideas?

Hi,
Your link goes to a secure URL, no go.
What make model copier is it from?

The M66311FP on the PCB is a 16bit LED driver with Register and Latch.

Tom... :slight_smile:

M66311FP-Mitsubishi.pdf (214 KB)

Hi,
This might be helpful, its about the difference between Laser and LED scan technology.

Tom.. :slight_smile:

XOGWP-15.pdf (1.03 MB)

TomGeorge:
Hi,
Your link goes to a secure URL, no go.
What make model copier is it from?

The M66311FP on the PCB is a 16bit LED driver with Register and Latch.

Tom... :slight_smile:

Ok. 16 bits - 16 leds, * 7 chips at .1" spacing = 11.2" close to 12" but not there...

There are only 2 pins on the other (2) led boards, one has a whole bunch of LED's and the other has just a few. I believe they were used to heat seal, or deactivate flash or whatever to the drum all at once.

The PDF link does explain, and the setup of the drum does resemble the thumb-nail. Both the LED array and the drum were lined up with no other moving parts, mirrors etc... I can not see how it's physically possible to render a print out with lights this size, without a lens to size down, or another axial movement. Unless of course, this big blue drum did something else - and I missed another assembly that was the business part, thats possible since it took me about 50 hours to part it out down to every fastener, clip, belt, cog and pulley.

Copier make - I forget, sorry I can't be helpful. I never had intention on needing anything proprietary from it, since I scored about 20 motors large and small, boxes of belts and pullies, etc..

I can not see how it's physically possible to render a print out with lights this size, without a lens to size down, or another axial movement.

The LEDs do not create the image. They are used to charge up the drum. A separate laser arrangement then discharges the drum at a high resolution, then the toner sticks to the drum in the charged areas and is fused onto the paper with the heater.

I seriously believe there was no laser assembly in this copier. It can't really be possible, so I must have found it and put it somewhere, then forgot about it.


Oh, no I think I remember now...... The scanner part of the copier had optics that shot down into the printing bed, with filters. I'm not sure there was any digital printing part of the machine. I think it just developed an image onto the wheel by bouncing the light straight from the source.

Grumpy_Mike:
The LEDs do not create the image. They are used to charge up the drum. A separate laser arrangement then discharges the drum at a high resolution, then the toner sticks to the drum in the charged areas and is fused onto the paper with the heater.

The LED's do not charge the drum. High voltage does that. The LED's are for "erasing" the drum completely after a copy is made before it's ready for next copy.

Point 8, Discharge lamp.

In old copiers this eraser was simply made from a string of incandescent bulbs.

Why it's made in that way, where it's possible to only erase part of the drum, to answer that we need to know which model of copier it is, so we can look up what extra special tricks it might do.

// Per.

I have to sort through alot of stuff to find who made the copier, and do not remember any of them have the copier info on it.

There are a bunch of these front reflective mirrors angled 45 degrees to position light down into the developing chamber. There is also a green filter of some type.

2 linear x,y slides positioned a good sized lens. There were high voltage wires that also lead up to some type of sealed halogen or other long slender glass tube bulbs. The image was illuminated, magnified, and bounced off these mirrors into the developer.

The amazing thing is, it was able to develop the image on photo sensitive magnetic material. The magnetized image spun on a dry bed of toner, picked up only on magnetized reagons. Then transfer it to one or many other paper sheets, which were sealed by a spinning hot iron/plastic fuser roller. All this is done within 1 second, probably many times a second.

I can't even begin to explain how many auger and brush conveyor assemblies the machine had to handle the toner. Pulled it out of a drum and carried in every direction.

There was also an aluminum roller, with magnets inside of a steel shaft inside of the aluminum exterior. The inside magnet shaft rotates internally. This awesome device actually carried the toner around the outside of it, without making any friction to convey onto the cleaned photo drum.

It had a full color touch screen LCD interface, so it is not older than 1900 technology. I tried to trace how to interface the pins. Cery few google search results, so I packed the distraction away on the shelf.

I understand mostly how this process works, except the specifics photo magnetic operation. I know it is a lot of chemistry and physics involved. I see now I have to study more on that mystery.

They use colored toner in powder coating, which is also magnetic fused with heat. But the only way now they have, is spraying entire magnetic part with the powder. If I want to mask off any area, is done with tape. Somehow, whatever chemical in that toner tansfer drum is able to magnetically mask, using light.

So i probably need to discover the chemistry used on this blue drum, that activates magnetically using light. Then I could just formulate a re-useable silicone rubber sheet. If the sheet is then masked with image exposure, then charged magnetically. I can transfer toner directly to heated copper, sealing and transferring without any wet medium. The same sheet can just be used to transfer the PCB traces, and possibly also the white silkscreen print after etching.

DocStein99:
I have to sort through alot of stuff to find who made the copier, and do not remember any of them have the copier info on it.

There are a bunch of these front reflective mirrors angled 45 degrees to position light down into the developing chamber. There is also a green filter of some type.

2 linear x,y slides positioned a good sized lens. There were high voltage wires that also lead up to some type of sealed halogen or other long slender glass tube bulbs. The image was illuminated, magnified, and bounced off these mirrors into the developer.

The amazing thing is, it was able to develop the image on photo sensitive magnetic material. The magnetized image spun on a dry bed of toner, picked up only on magnetized reagons. Then transfer it to one or many other paper sheets, which were sealed by a spinning hot iron/plastic fuser roller. All this is done within 1 second, probably many times a second.

I can't even begin to explain how many auger and brush conveyor assemblies the machine had to handle the toner. Pulled it out of a drum and carried in every direction.

There was also an aluminum roller, with magnets inside of a steel shaft inside of the aluminum exterior. The inside magnet shaft rotates internally. This awesome device actually carried the toner around the outside of it, without making any friction to convey onto the cleaned photo drum.

It had a full color touch screen LCD interface, so it is not older than 1900 technology. I tried to trace how to interface the pins. Cery few google search results, so I packed the distraction away on the shelf.

I understand mostly how this process works, except the specifics photo magnetic operation. I know it is a lot of chemistry and physics involved. I see now I have to study more on that mystery.

They use colored toner in powder coating, which is also magnetic fused with heat. But the only way now they have, is spraying entire magnetic part with the powder. If I want to mask off any area, is done with tape. Somehow, whatever chemical in that toner tansfer drum is able to magnetically mask, using light.

So i probably need to discover the chemistry used on this blue drum, that activates magnetically using light. Then I could just formulate a re-useable silicone rubber sheet. If the sheet is then masked with image exposure, then charged magnetically. I can transfer toner directly to heated copper, sealing and transferring without any wet medium. The same sheet can just be used to transfer the PCB traces, and possibly also the white silkscreen print after etching.

DocStein99:
I have to sort through alot of stuff to find who made the copier, and do not remember any of them have the copier info on it.

There are a bunch of these front reflective mirrors angled 45 degrees to position light down into the developing chamber. There is also a green filter of some type.

2 linear x,y slides positioned a good sized lens. There were high voltage wires that also lead up to some type of sealed halogen or other long slender glass tube bulbs. The image was illuminated, magnified, and bounced off these mirrors into the developer.

The amazing thing is, it was able to develop the image on photo sensitive magnetic material. The magnetized image spun on a dry bed of toner, picked up only on magnetized reagons. Then transfer it to one or many other paper sheets, which were sealed by a spinning hot iron/plastic fuser roller. All this is done within 1 second, probably many times a second.

I can't even begin to explain how many auger and brush conveyor assemblies the machine had to handle the toner. Pulled it out of a drum and carried in every direction.

There was also an aluminum roller, with magnets inside of a steel shaft inside of the aluminum exterior. The inside magnet shaft rotates internally. This awesome device actually carried the toner around the outside of it, without making any friction to convey onto the cleaned photo drum.

It had a full color touch screen LCD interface, so it is not older than 1900 technology. I tried to trace how to interface the pins. Cery few google search results, so I packed the distraction away on the shelf.

I understand mostly how this process works, except the specifics photo magnetic operation. I know it is a lot of chemistry and physics involved. I see now I have to study more on that mystery.

They use colored toner in powder coating, which is also magnetic fused with heat. But the only way now they have, is spraying entire magnetic part with the powder. If I want to mask off any area, is done with tape. Somehow, whatever chemical in that toner tansfer drum is able to magnetically mask, using light.

So i probably need to discover the chemistry used on this blue drum, that activates magnetically using light. Then I could just formulate a re-useable silicone rubber sheet. If the sheet is then masked with image exposure, then charged magnetically. I can transfer toner directly to heated copper, sealing and transferring without any wet medium. The same sheet can just be used to transfer the PCB traces, and possibly also the white silkscreen print after etching.

Every time you write magnetic, you really meant electrostatic, right?

It is correct that some printers and copy machines does have a magnetic developer mixed into the toner powder. It's function is to hold the powder on the drum.

Everything in a laser printer/copier works on electrostatic principle. If that copier was able to "scan" the page once and then print many copies of it, i guess the LED-strip was to "condition" the drum, rather than just erase it. With the right amount of light and voltages, it should be possible to amplify the latent image, even after a print operation, and preparing for a new print.

// Per.

// Per.

Zapro:
Every time you write magnetic, you really meant electrostatic, right?

It is correct that some printers and copy machines does have a magnetic developer mixed into the toner powder. It's function is to hold the powder on the drum.

// Per.

Ok, thank you for helping me with that. I do not know what electrostatic is, how it works - but now I can get a book and watch some videos. I know the surface is charged by electricity. I can not figure out how a beam of light can discharge, reverse polarity, or whatever it is that the light does to alter the physics.

On the high voltage board that was connected to the developer drum, is labeled "RICOH". This is a Ricoh photocopier.

I can not figure out how a beam of light can discharge, reverse polarity, or whatever it is that the light does to alter the physics.

Light does not alter physics full stop!

I do not know what electrostatic is,

Electric charges attract and repel each other like magnets. It is a fundamental property of physics.
It is electricity that is not moving, and it can be generated in all sorts of ways, the simplest is by rubbing two materials together, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhWQ-r1LYXY

A beam of light will put energy into a system and will dislodge electrons in the surface it falls on if the wavelength of the light is above the required energy for the photo electric effect to happen. Photoelectric effect - Wikipedia

In an insulator these electrons do not move but stay at the spot where the light struck. If the insulator had no charge on it, then the electrons induce a negitave charge on the insulator. If the insulator was previously positively charged then the electrons neutralise the charge at this spot.