TRANSIENT ELECTRONICS

Does Arduino have any intention to make transient electronics, dissolvable electronics on request using new technology? many electronics was used just for practicing and then becomes garbage that is not environment friendly at all anymore...

Turn it in at your local electronics recycling center. The copper/aluminum/silicon/solder that are on the boards and in the chips are all recoverable.

you missed very important word dissovable . FYI this is waht I ment by transient and dissolvable electronic parts:

and here
https://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=transient%20electronics’%20that%20dissolve&rs=typed&0=transient%20electronics’%20that%20dissolve|typed.

That video is from September 2012 - a little over 3 years ago. This technology, if it is proven to be useful or practical - is likely years if not decades out. Right now, it seems like it is strictly research-oriented only. It very well may not be useful ever. Only the market will decide - and only then once it becomes available outside of the lab.

Something to keep in mind: Do you know when surface mount technology came about (as in real world uses - not laboratory research)? It was back in the 1960s. Heck, I have electronics from the 1980s that use SMT components; on another similar level, old Polaroid cameras used flexible PCBs and thru-hole devices (there were probably SMT variants in there at some point, I imagine).

So - for SMT, it is only fairly recently that SMT has become the default, taking over from thru-hole components. That's about 50 years from commercial usage, to ubiquitous, price of peanuts usage. Right now, these dissolvable components aren't even out of the lab. They may never get beyond this stage, or they may only find extremely niche uses that won't be available to the hobbyist. Or - they might be something you are asking for, where a company can offer "print on demand" hardware at low prices.

I don't want any sensors dissolving inside of me.

I could see sensors in the field being useful - I don't see them coming out with dissolvable uC and RF units tho for quite a while.

I don't want my laptop/cellphone dissolving. When my phone stops being useful as a phone, I'll use it as an MP3 player.

I'm with Crossroads on this one. I don't want my electronic devices to break down unexpectedly. And even if they can ensure a full life span with such devices, and we do start desolving components, where does this sludge go? Let's face it, it doesn't matter what we do, we will always end with harmful substances making its way into the earth and water.

Don't get me wrong, I try and do my part by not polluting the world and recycle, I have kids and want a clean place for them. But people take things to the extreme.

Does Arduino have any intention to make transient electronics, dissolvable electronics on request using new technology? many electronics was used just for practicing and then becomes garbage that is not environment friendly at all anymore…

Is your interest simply idle curiosity or did you want to place an order ?

@CrossRoads : you make me lough with you responds.

@ cr0sh: It is out of lab. limited use for now.

@raschemmel: As you will see bellow I am looking for very specific electronic components. If you can help me to find them I will place order. If those components are Transient , bio-compatible electronics would be even better...but for now would be very happy to find micro sized electronics...

Those who invented this materials with intention to be dissolved when triggered knows for pros and cons of it so it will be applied accordingly with or without our wish and fear.

Talking about extremes and applying extreme possibility on everything we should not drive car, fly by plane..go by subway, use elevator..etc because something bad can happen to us. Right?

In any case Arduino , raspberry pi , IBM, Intel, ASUS and others should already think about it...in advance.


  1. I want o ask where can I find micro sized electronic components

for micro size insect robot :
hhttp://blog-high-tech.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/RoboBees.png

  1. Looking spec of electronic component where can I see geometrical dimension o that component?

3 Does Arduino have 3D models, CAD, of its electronic components?

The amount of hobby electronics waste doesn't amount to much compared with the literally mountains of consumer electronics that is made to break in months, so you have to buy a new one.

When I think of how much stuff I've repaired myself, to save it from that fate, it more than equals the hobby stuff that I bought and threw out.

ruma29:
@ cr0sh: It is out of lab. limited use for now.

It is? Can you point to a source (even if it is only one where you have to order in quantities of 100K)?

Until a manufacturer (minimum) can order it - it's not "out of the lab". I'm skeptical that this is available currently, but then I haven't looked. So please, educate me.

Thanks.

:slight_smile:

So what's your interest in this technology ? (do you have an application ?)

Whatever. None of you with so many yeas of experiance in designing electronic components did not answer on any of these questions:

  1. I want o ask where can I find micro sized electronic components

for micro size insect robot :
hhttp://blog-high-tech.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/RoboBees.png

  1. Looking spec of electronic component where can I see geometrical dimension o that component?

3 Does Arduino have 3D models, CAD, of its electronic components?

Kindly help by answering on these questions.

Thank you

When they are products and HAVE datasheets we can probably tell you.

YOU posted the link for the University of Illinois researcher. Is that a product ? Do you see a part number ?

YOU posted the link for the Pinterest site. Do you see any products there ? Do you see any company names or part numbers ? How are WE supposed to find datasheets that do NOT exist ?

Do you need years of experience to know that R&D products don't have datasheets because they are not products ?

You do not seem to understand that R&D prototyoes are not products, are not for sale and do not have datasheets.

If you have EVER ( in your entire life ) looked at so much as ONE datasheet you would ALREADY know thst DIMENSIONS are on the last few pages , AFTER Electrical specifications. If you had Googleid "datasheet" you could have found that out for yourself. While we may not know where go find things that are not for sale, we do know how to use Google.

Google Search "datasheet"

2nd link:
What do you see on pages 627 to 631 of this datasheet ?

Does Arduino have 3D models, CAD, of its electronic components?

If you knew how to use Google you would know the answer to this question.

So what's your interest in this technology ? (do you have an application ?)

Whatever.

Yeah, I don't think that's going to fly as a response to the question of why you want this technology.
Not only does it raise flags but makes one think that your application might not be in the best interest of anyone else. Homeland Security may want to take a closer look at you.

  1. I want o ask where can I find micro sized electronic components

Many components are available in either “chip scale” packages or bare wafers these days. Here are a couple that have seemed especially interesting to me over the last few years:

Logic: NXP Picologic (I see that I am behind the times, and that there are now two newer and smaller families: microPak and Diamond. Down to 0.8 x 0.8 x 0.35 mm for single gates.)

ARM Microcontrollers: NXP 1102 and Freescale Kinetis Mini about 2mm*2mm (Hmm. Now both owned by NXP, after a merger.)

Mini-FPGA: Silego GreenPak “Programmable Mixed-signal Matrix” chips.

  1. Looking spec of electronic component where can I see geometrical dimension o that component?

For the above, I think all the dimensions (for all of the available packages) are in the datasheets. Sometimes a datasheet will simply refer to a package type (standard or vendor-specific) whose dimension details are described in a separate datasheet. All those “0402 sized” passive components are self-describing. 0402 means 40x20 mils (1 mil == .001 inch.) Unless they’re metric, in which case I think they’re .4x.2mm (except 0402 is a non-metric size, I think.)

3 Does Arduino have 3D models, CAD, of its electronic components?

Of the components? No. those are provided by the component manufacturer if they are provided at all. There are Eagle CAD files for most of the Arduino BOARDS, which can be used to derive dimensions or 3d models using other tools. Sometimes you can find other files that have already been created by other 3rd parties.

Why are you asking this sort of question here? The Arduino community isn’t some collection of experts in state-of-the-art microrobotics; most of us barely make it to “Electronics Hobbyist” level (being more interested in the projects that can be created, rather than the details of implementation.) A very small percentage might be at “small scale manufacturer” level, but the sort of chips I mentioned above are well beyond our capabilities. One of those wafer scale BGA chips or 0.35mm pitch packages can’t even use the standard PCB companies - you’ll have to search out someone who can handle “extreme fine pitch” layouts in 4±layer boards with various advanced capabilities, which increases both cost and turnaround time significantly. And then you can’t assemble them manually, either. I have a sample LPC1102 around somewhere, and I have some experimental greenpack breakout boards that I have yet to assemble. Looking at those is a very humbling experience!

Why are you asking this sort of question here?

It would seem we have a reputation of being a bunch of "know it all"s… ;D

I’d like to know how he plans to solder a logic chip that is 3.1mm x 1.7mm.

I don’t think they sell soldering irons that have tips that are 0.4 mm wide (pin width (bp)

www.digikey.com and www.mouser.com have links to datasheets for all kinds of parts, the datasheets have mechanical dimensions of the parts, or you can go to the manufacturers directly, such as www.ti.com or www.maxim.com for a couple of examples.
Discrete resistors and capacitors down to 2mmx 1mm are available (0201 package).
Chips are available generally in packages, leadless and ball grid array are generally the smallest, and you can special order unpackaged die to mount directly to a substrate or board also (ever see a card with a blob of black stuff? There's an unpackaged chip die underneath).

Parts that small are typically applied robotically and then soldered in a reflow oven, not by hand.
I was assembling boards last night, Atmega2561 boards similar to these Atmega2560 mini system boards I offer. No pictures yet, maybe tonight. Just add power/gnd and a sketch and you're off & processing!