Unfriendly Geek Clique/Arduino hostility on sites like StackExchange

Anyone else find the remarks in the first comment on this question to be unhelpful, unfriendly and rather patronising?

I won't mention the name so as to not attract attention, his comments in reply to an Arduino-tagged question are as follows - sure you can work out which is which :slight_smile:

First, out here in the real world "shield" and "sketch" are normal words that don't make sense as you used them. No, the arduino marketing folks don't get to redefine standard english words and have the rest of us just go along.

Then later...

I realize those are the terms used in the arduino community, but they have specific and different meanings everywhere else. This is a general electronics forum, not a arduino forum. If arduino people come here, they have to be prepared to talk general electronics correctly. I also deeply resent how the arduino people have tried to hijack common english words for their private use. Every effort should be made not to tolerate this in the larger world. At the very least, we can edjucate people that come here using the wrong terms.

Dude! What the hell??

So, no help, no answers offered, just a petty, snooty, snotty attitude to people using something that's brought fun, education and coding within the reach of hobbyists and school classrooms. And I wasn't the only one to notice the irony of his mis-spelling "educate" :slight_smile:

I see this attitude a lot - someone dared to ask about the difference between references and pointers, and the answers were all along the lines of "What's there not to get? Jeeez - are you stupid? A pointer is a pointer and a reference is a reference. Idiot.". Another thing I also see quite a lot is "go away, spend £35 at Amazon on this Kernighan and Ritchie book from 1996 and come back when you know something". Which is probably excellent advice, but what they could have done was say "well, here's where you're going wrong - you might also find this book useful".

Anyone else notice this? We were all beginners once. We all started out defining pins using "int" (as the examples do) when we should have used const byte - but when you're starting out and blinking an LED and have 30k left, does it matter? Well, try posting the blink example sketch somewhere other than here if you want to get shot down in flames!

I think I have to very much agree with the last person in that comment thread who said:

How fortunate that the rest of the world takes care never to repurpose or overload terms. Like current, or code, or wire, or power.

So, grumble over - is it just me, or have you noticed this too?

I don't frequent other forums, but had I experienced this kind of response, I believe I would feel the same. I'm not an expert in C programming and struggle through some things that are probably well known for someone proficient in C. If they're not there to help mentor someone so they can go from beginner to intermediate to expert, what are they trying to do? Seems that the moderators of those sites should be policing this kind of response from its members.

Don't sweat it.

Never any shortage of d**kheads. :astonished:

If you read through all the answers you'll notice there is only one "arduino is evel" person. The others are trying to help out and even trying to correct the person. I think calling stackExchange "Geek Clique/Arduino hostile" for this one person is "overreacting".

How fortunate that the rest of the world takes care never to repurpose or overload terms. Like current, or code, or wire, or power.

The original meaning of current was about the flow of water not the flow of electrons this person thinks of.
The original meaning of code was some cryptic thing that helped you to get some where. Had nothing to do with C,C++,fortran,cobol...
It is very common to re purpose words. Blaming the arduino community to do so is o so ridiculous.

First, out here in the real world "shield" and "sketch" are normal words that don't make sense as you used them. No, the arduino marketing folks don't get to redefine standard english words and have the rest of us just go along.

He is ignoring the fact that the words sketch and shield already have been extended (and not redefined).
He is blaming Arduino marketing to redefine english words. However it is the wring community that did sketch. If he wants to blame someone for sketch he should blame Hernando Barragán. I don't think many people in the arduino community ever heard of this person.

Don't think bad of it. This person is probably autistic to some degree (like I am; so I'm talking from experiance) and has not yet learned that things and meanings change in time and space. It goes against the persons "view on how the world should be (or is)" and that is very threatening/offending. Yust like the persons reaction comes offending to you as it does not match your "view on how the world should be (or is)".

Look at it this way. There are about 7 billion people on the world. If each of those only make 1 mistake on the internet there are 7 billion mistakes on the internet. I know I made more than one ]:D, how about you?

Best regards

How fortunate that the rest of the world takes care never to repurpose or overload terms. Like current, or code, or wire, or power.

Our physics teacher in the 60s would blow his top is any kid said " amperage", "theres no such word" he would rant, " it is current. "

He must be turning in his grave if they have the internet down there where he surely ended up, if he surfs the electrical webpages and sees all the references to amperage :slight_smile:

Don't sweat it.

Never any shortage of d**kheads. :astonished:

And the original, more crude version: http://www.everyjoe.com/files/2008/11/greater-internet-fuckwad-theory.jpg

Someone's probably upset because "back in their day" they had to do everything the hard way, and there was no Arduino forum and rapid prototyping platform for them to use.

No, the arduino marketing folks don't get to redefine standard english words and have the rest of us just go along.

Given the fact that every English speaking marketing-folk on the planet redefines standard English words I'm surprised the person who wrote that has not suffered from a stress induced heart attack.

"Pre-owned car" is the phrase the irks me. The definition of "pre-owned" (if that were a valid word) is "before owned" which makes a "pre-owned car" a car that has not yet been owned. Dude, it's a freaking "used car". Calling it "pre-owned" makes you out to be an idiot.

Nice woody sound, much better than shield.

Stick it up yer podule.

Calling it "pre-owned" makes you out to be an idiot.

I agree, and I also hate things like " on a daily basis " which is " daily".

Many years ago an excited rep came into my shop telling me about this new CB radio that he had in his car.
He said that they had there own abbreviations that they use, for instance " thats a big 10-4 my good buddy "
When asked what that was an abbreviation for he repiled " yes "

I think we should stop calling our generally used language " English" but rather Earthish or something.

There is hardly a country that hasn't been colonised or at war with England over the centuries, and the language that we use now is nothing like Shakespeare used for instance.

( the spell checker here wants me to spell colonised as colonized for instance, a mistake that was no doubt caused by a splash of water on the original dictionary on the Mayflower , and passed down by the Founding Fathers :slight_smile:

The Oxford dictionary adds new words each year to keep up with fads and technology, for instance.

The new thumb typing peeps have changed some words to make easier to type on a cellphone.

Let the fuddy duddies that moan about English being bastardised keep the old English grammar if they wish, but use Earthish for general communication.

An old English teacher tells his new class that there are two words that they must never use , one is "gross" , and the other is "cool".

Little Johnny at the back pipes up, " so what are the two words then Sir ? "

Personally, I don't like "shield" - it conveys nothing of its purpose, and in fact, "shields" often fail to protect.
On the other hand, it is no better or worse than "daughterboard" which similarly fails to convey purpose.

"Sketch" I'm sort-of OK with - it obviously isn't a program, because it doesn't have a "main()" and it isn't a driver or filesystem which also don't have "main()"s, so it must be an abbreviated or outline program.

I do, however, hate "wanna", "gonna", "plz" and any other form of txt with a ferocity that borders on sociopathy.

(BTW, from the unnamed person's biog, he's a Microchip specialist, so probably just bitter and twisted after years of dealing with PICs :wink: )

Sorry, slightly OT but the one that really irks me is the use by a certain fast food chain of the word 'restaurant'.

If a community or bunch of people wish to coin a phrase or word then i don't see an issue...

Before computers existed, before valves! "Computers" were human, i guess he has no issue with that change in the dictionary.

Some people have to try to prove their superiority by trying to prove everyone is much less intelligent than they are. All the really prove is that they are slightly more intelligent than a moron...

Shield, sketch, object, method... still don't communicate much until you get the translation of what they are trying to say. Don't know why program, struct and procedure had to be renamed, other than to make it obvious who is part of the priesthood...

sketch, object, method... program, struct and procedure

Because they're not equivalent.
A sketch isn't a program because it doesn't have a "main" or prototypes (in the same way you don't call a device driver a program).
An object isn't a struct because the private/public rules are different.
A method is a function/procedure/subroutine that is a class member.

Nice woody sound, much better than shield.

Stick it up yer podule.

Well I don't know how many people here know that Acorn used that term for an add on board on their RSIC PC machines in the 90s.
The same Acorn that invented the ARM chip, the A used to stand for Acorn.

I am still learning to speak Arduinish, this historical stuff is very confusing for an old fart who only just got into software :slight_smile:

In engineering, a "shield" is something that is used to prevent RF interference between circuits. This is a technical term that has been used for over 60 years.

A "sketch" is a hand drawing preliminary to drawing a circuit diagram.

The rumor is that the words shield and sketch were poorly chosen translations from Italian words (ex: "schema" became sketch) and it's too late to change it now.

In the world of engineering words have exact, definite meanings. It is critical and important that you understand that if you are going to interact with the mainstream engineering community because it is never, ever going to change. It's not like a class in literature where you take artistic license with words. We've spent over four years getting a college engineering degree where if we use a word in the wrong context, we get graded as wrong. I got graded as wrong when in a circuits test I was asked to identify a "circuit parameter" and instead gave the amplification factor of a component that my instructor deemed was "device parameter". Now, you might think this is nitpicking but when you are in a room of 13 other BSEEs all working on an airbag for a Chevy everyone is expected to use the same terminology or people go flying through windshields.

Let me stop here and explain that I am not excusing the behavior of the people who were rude to you on stackexchange - I am merely explaining it.

So Arduino people are now jumping into forums and asking about shields (while for years these have been called "daughter boards"). Helpful engineers assume they are talking about RF interference and ask for clarification. By the time it's cleared up, the regulars on the forum that never heard of Arduino (I'll get to that in a minute) get the impression that (Arduino) people are making words up while demanding that everyone must understand their (Arduino) terminology without explanation.

You have to understand that when you look at the hobbyist & small engineering community at large, it is so massively huge, in the hundreds of millions of dollars in kits and components, that Arduino, Raspberry Pi, and Beagle Bone are a pimple on a flea's ass compared to the countless thousands of boards out there. This is why many mainstream engineers have never heard of Arduino, shields, or sketches. The first time I read about an Arduino shield, I really did think it was for RF interference! So when you post on public forums discussing shields and sketches, to most people you really are using obscure, insider terminology.

And Again: I am not excusing anyone's behavior - I am merely explaining it.

You could have started your stackexchange post with:
"So I've wired up a little robot with a sound shield (a shield is an Arduino daughter board) and some sensors. I'm trying to write a sketch an Arduino program that will let me check the sensors."

How can "EEngineer" come up with "Posts: 0" on his first submission?

Because posts to Bar Sport don't increment your post count.

Or maybe I'm not really here...