I have found several posts similar to this question, but none exactly answer my question. As I mentioned in other threads, I am building a fly line leader furling machine. I want to remotely control the speed and on/off of the motor (rpm measurement/readout is not needed).
I have already built a prototype using a 24V DC motor and it works pretty well. But I have acquired several brushed AC motors. When I took one apart I found they all had a rectifier circuit in them, so I assume they are really 110l V DC motors. I know I can control the speed with an inexpensive motor speed controller and have used one to do just that. The problem is I want to control the speed remotely via an IR hand held controller.
I know there is an IR controller for the Arduino, that's how I am controlling the dc motor I am currently using. So what I need to do is find a way to control the AC motor described above in a manor similar to the way I control the DC motor.
One solution is to interrupt the current at the brushes and insert the controller at that point. That is possible, but it would require some "interesting" modification of the existing circuit board.
I could completely remove the circuit board and re-construct the rectifier circuit externally and just send the rectified DC to the motor, but still need a way to control the 110VDC with the Arduino.
Bottom line is how do you control a high voltage DC motor with an Arduino? Or is it even something worth doing?
So, any suggestions?
Thanks.
What You need is the high voltage driver circuit, as You already told. I have used an SSR, Solid State Relay, to Control 230 volt AC but only in an On/Off situation. There is always some heat produced when switching (PWM) and I don't know the capacity of SSRs in the heat aspect.
What power, what amperage will You need?
To use 110 volt DC, buy a ready supply. It's not that easy to build such a one on Your own. DC supplies already as low as 24 volt calls for special construction care to survive.
You have ordered stuff and You have been checking for alternatives. That's good. Let's set if other helpers bring more alternatives.
Railroader:
You have ordered stuff and You have been checking for alternatives. That's good. Let's set if other helpers bring more alternatives.
Many thanks. I have just ordered 4 Arduino Beetles, love the small footprint. I am evaluating the SSR requirements now. As soon as I figure out all the specs for SSR I'll place an order for that/them. I already have the ir controller for Arduino and the code should be pretty straight forward for the SSR part. I also have a manual speed controller that should work in the interim, so as soon as I get the motor back together I'll start hooking up the electrical connections for speed control to see how that part works. I have a few UNOs around, so can write and test the code for the SSR, then just a question of putting all the pieces together.
Then I can build the actual furling machine itself. I have all the parts, just need to machine the two end plates for bearings. Since I am using a gear train, I don't have a need to reverse the motor since the drive gear actually rotates opposite to the three furling gears.
Thanks again for your suggestions and guidance.
Just make sure that the SSR is of the "logical" type, turning fully on at a the Arduino output voltage, usually 5 volt.
Check its data and when You put it to the test, check the surface temperature using a finger. Eventually a little fan can do a lot.
analogWrite to a digital output that is marked for PWM would do. However the resolution is 0 - 255, 0 to 100%.
Ok,
For anyone who might be interested. Here is a circuit diagram of the motor I am going to use. I have also attached some photos of the circuit board. What I haven't been able to determine is what the component is with the numbers 47A+120F might be. My first thought was resistor, but it could be something else I think.
WaterPumpSchematic.pdf (20.8 KB)
That diod bridge is defatly wrong. Turn the bridge 90 degrees counter clockwise. If there is a resistor in serie the value of it must be low, maybe very low. I have no idea. The capacitor Must connected across the resistor and bi bipolar, not any electrolytic one. Does it say 120F? I hope not. Is it 12 D(?)F?
Check the connections on that cirkular board. As an SSR must be connected in serie in mains it can replace the switch I think.
Know what You are doing so not a loose mains cable can make Contact with the Arduino Cables during any circumstances.
Railroader:
That diod bridge is defatly wrong. Turn the bridge 90 degrees counter clockwise. If there is a resistor in serie the value of it must be low, maybe very low. I have no idea. The capacitor Must connected across the resistor and bi bipolar, not any electrolytic one. Does it say 120F? I hope not. Is it 12 D(?)F?
The drawing may be wrong, I didn't really pay too much attention to the connections, the one on the motor circuity board is correct, but the unknown component is definately in series between Line 1 and the diod bridge. That makes be think it is some kind of resistor. But I don't know if that unknown component is a resistor, cap or something else. I tested the connections and found no continuity. So tested resistance with max ohm setting and observed a rapid rise then decrease to 0. That makes me suspect a cap. The only markings on it are the 47A+120F and PEPT J down on the metal. It is 120 F. Its only about 1" long and about 5/8 wide. I know 120F is a huge cap, so I am really open to any and all ideas.
Why not unsolder that mystery resistor/capacitor thing and incorporate in Your design?
120 F is almost a battory. It can't be possible in that limited space. It is some kind of filfter due to brushes I guess.
Take a look inside some household machines. They usually use brushed motors!
The components are most likely very special and not available "everyware". However quite some mA is supposed to pass though the cap. Mystery…..
Your Ohm testing makes it looks like the capacitor is in serie with the mains plug and the motor. Maybe the resistor is not a resistor but an inductive device? An LC-filter all together?
Does this apply to the brushed motors You have ordered?
I would happily wellcome helpers being more used to mains AC motors to step in.
Mains can be very dangerous…..
Firstly, what is a "fly line leader furling machine"?
Secondly, is there any need to have a high voltage motor?
I'd imagine they would be reasonably powerful given the size of the backplate.
Low voltage is much easier ( and safer) for beginners to use and build.
Think you will find any IR control you may have to build yourself with a microcontroller and an old TV remote or if with a micro, there would be modules which would adapt.
May not be the best choice as it would require some programming knowledge to get a remote to work as you require.
Not to mention the safety factor especially with high voltage motors starting without warning.
Not likely, rather a filter to handle the sparky brushes.
bluejets:
Firstly, what is a "fly line leader furling machine"?
Secondly, is there any need to have a high voltage motor?
I'd imagine they would be reasonably powerful given the size of the backplate.
Low voltage is much easier ( and safer) for beginners to use and build.
Think you will find any IR control you may have to build yourself with a microcontroller and an old TV remote or if with a micro, there would be modules which would adapt.
May not be the best choice as it would require some programming knowledge to get a remote to work as you require.
Not to mention the safety factor especially with high voltage motors starting without warning.
When using a fly rod, the line (which is the actual weight that is cast, the line is attached to a tapered leader. Most of the time its a 9' piece of monofiliment tapered so that the butt section is about the same diameter as the fly line it is attached to and the tip end that connects to the fly is very small in the order of several thousands and has a strength of from 2 to 5 pounds. The taper makes for better and longer casting. Ok, so a furled leader is made of some kind of material that suits the maker. I use .0047 diameter nylon and taper the leader. The leaders are made with a furling machine. Here are some photos of the furling board I have proto-typed.
Actually its about the same process that is used to make rope.
In the current configuration I use a hand drill, but need to stand at the drill to control it. I want to be able to monitor the furling process, which means I need to be able to watch the leader as it furls from the tip to the butt section. Hence the need for the remote controller.
As for what motor to use, I can for sure use a 24V DC motor which I have (several in fact) that will work just fine. But the motors I am currently working with I obtained for free. And other than the opportunity to experiment with some universal motor control using the Arduino I really don't have any other reason for doing this project. So its more of an education exercise than a actual necessity. That having been said, I have another project that uses a sewing machine motor with foot controller. I want to replace that arrangement with something with remote control or a foot controller using a variable pot. I have the foot controller designed, so about all I need is the ability to connect it to a sewing machine/universal motor to drive the works.
Why a high voltage motor for this application, torque requirements. I need more torque than my dc motors can provide.
Railroader:
Why not unsolder that mystery resistor/capacitor thing and incorporate in Your design?
120 F is almost a battory. It can't be possible in that limited space. It is some kind of filfter due to brushes I guess.
Take a look inside some household machines. They usually use brushed motors!
The components are most likely very special and not available "everyware". However quite some mA is supposed to pass though the cap. Mystery…..
Your Ohm testing makes it looks like the capacitor is in serie with the mains plug and the motor. Maybe the resistor is not a resistor but an inductive device? An LC-filter all together?
Does this apply to the brushed motors You have ordered?
I would happily wellcome helpers being more used to mains AC motors to step in.
Mains can be very dangerous…..
Actually what I am probably going to do is put a speed controller on it attached to the line-in. Then since I don't need to reverse the rotation for this application due to the gear train, and just work up a "dead man's switch" with a push on button switch and a long lead. That way I can monitor the furling without the use of a remote. Sometimes the simplest method is the best. I am still very curious about what that one component might be, and I still want to find a way to remotely control a universal high voltage motor.
Well, you might consider using an inexpensive AC drill (~$18 at HF) and control its speed using an AC motor speed controller, or if the motor is small like in the HF drill, a $6 AC light dimmer switch. Use an extension cord between the drill and the speed controller.
zoomkat:
Well, you might consider using an inexpensive AC drill (~$18 at HF) and control its speed using an AC motor speed controller, or if the motor is small like in the HF drill, a $6 AC light dimmer switch. Use an extension cord between the drill and the speed controller.
Actually, I am using a drill now. But hadn't thought about a corded drill. That actually is about the same as just adding a dimmer to the motors I already have. But many thanks for the idea.