Website needs prominent links to Atmel datasheets

I have been following a couple of the forums here for a few days now and very many of the questions that are asked would be unnecessary if people studied the relevant Atmel datasheets - for example doc8161.pdf for the Atmega328.

I believe the datasheets are essential reference documents for anyone programming a microcontroller yet I haven't seen any link to them on this website.

Perhaps someone could arrange to put a prominent link - ideally in the reference page.

...R

After a few days of reading this forum, you should have realized that most beginners don't do any research for their project anyway.

Here you go:

http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/default.aspx?tab=documents

Seems like a few brain cells still need reviving :slight_smile:

In any case it's not even a useful link.

...R

KirAsh4:
Here you go:

http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/default.aspx?tab=documents

Lol, that link as all the datasheets for 8 and 32-bit controllers.. So it's useless? I bookmarked it.

This one is a little more direct, just the 8-bit devices.

I think Arduino.cc provide links to the datasheets that are easy enough to find. On the product pages the link to the datasheet is on the first line of text. I'd say that's prominent enough.

Overview
The Arduino Uno is a microcontroller board based on the ATmega328 (datasheet). It has 14 digital input/output pins (of which 6 can be used as PWM outputs)

@perhof, you will note that I titled this topic "prominent links". I don't at all agree that going to the Arduino Uno product page counts as a prominent link. Even if, as a newcomer, you knew there is such a thing as a datasheet how would you know to look there. Do you expect newcomers to read every page of the website when they won't even read the stickies about how to use the forum?

@codlink, Google didn't become the top search engine because it lists thousands of web pages. Other search engines were already doing that. Google is successful because it lists the page with the best answer first, or usually on the first page. A list of every Atmel document is almost as useless as an empty list.

Why do so many people seem opposed to being helpful? It's not as if a link to 2 or 3 key datasheets on the Reference page would be difficult to implement.

...R

Robin2:
Why do so many people seem opposed to being helpful? It's not as if a link to 2 or 3 key datasheets on the Reference page would be difficult to implement.

...R

As you can now see, as I did Robin, there is a strange mindset here. If it's a problem with a project or the Arduino, all comments are welcome. But if it's regarding the forum itself, it's off limits to criticism. That's really too bad.

I think by the time members are grown-up enough to realise what processor is on whatever particular flavour of Arduino they have, and need to know more about it, they're grown-up enough to go looking for a link to a datasheet themselves.

@AWOL, as you are a person of considerable influence on this Forum I find your reply very disturbing. Indeed it reflects exactly the sentiment expressed by @modeller.

There seems to be such a strong objection to publicizing the existence and usefulness of the fundamental data underlying the Arduino that I can only conclude there is a reason behind it. And it seems to me the most likely reason is to keep newcomers "in the dark" and dependent on the "experts" on this forum.

Prove me wrong by adding a page to the Reference section that has direct links to the key Atmel datasheets together with a short explanation of why a newcomer might be advised to study them - such as the following

"The full functional details of the ATMEL microprocessors that power the various Arduino boards are documented in various Atmel datasheets. Newcomers who are interested in having a full understanding of the electrical and programming capabilities of the microprocessor on their Arduino board are advised to download a copy of the relevant datasheet.

Following are links to the datasheets for the principal microprocessors used on Arduino boards."

...R

No, I utterly refute that, Robin2.

I would say that the datasheets are not a useful resource for most users here - most will find the link, take a quick look and conclude tl,dr.

Their sheer length and detail is likely to be overwhelming to the average noob, and they need a particular skill-set to interpret.
For example - a number of times it has been necessary to dispel the myth that a HIGH is anything above 0.6V, because in the "Electrical Characteristics" it quotes

VIH Input High Voltage, except XTAL1 and RESET pins VCC = 1.8V - 2.4V 0.7VCC
VCC = 2.4V - 5.5V 0.6VCC

People see the 0.6V, and miss the "CC"

Believe me, I have no vested interest in being some High Channeler of the Atmel Truth, but I'm a great believer in a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and unless you're equipped to, and capable of, reading a processor datasheet, you're going to be a very dangerous person indeed.

If you want detailed debate of the fine-detail and ins-and-outs of AVR, take it to AVRfreaks.

Prove me wrong by adding a page to the Reference section that has direct links to the key Atmel datasheets

I'm a forum moderator; I no access to, or interest in, the Reference section.

Robin2:
@AWOL, as you are a person of considerable influence on this Forum I find your reply very disturbing. Indeed it reflects exactly the sentiment expressed by @modeller.

I, for one, agree with AWOL. Maybe it's because I have learned early in life to always go for the datasheets first - my professors in college taught that. Even though I am in Brazil, my professors used this exact term, "datasheet", in English.

Before internet became so ubiquitous, I used to save the PDFs in my local HDD and sometimes print them. I must have about 200 printed datasheets of components I've used throughout my projects.

If a newbie knows what is a datasheet, than he'll have no trouble finding one - Google is your friend. I don't think it would help anyone to have the links in arduino.cc. Googling for it is almost always faster than opening arduino.cc and getting the link and if Google fails, go to www.alldatasheet.com.

what I actually do, however, is keep an Excel spreadsheet of every IC, BJS and FETs I have, with quantities for used and new parts, manufacturer, type, a short description and link to its datasheet. Therefore, when I am browsing my inventory spreadsheet for parts I might use, I am always just a click away from the datasheet.

I've checked my dictionary to be sure I'm not being offensive - this comment of yours is patronizing.

How on earth could reading a datasheet make anyone dangerous. Guns make people dangerous.

I used to be a senior civil servant. This is exactly the attitude of some civil servants who think the public can't be trusted to look after themselves. It is the attitude that is at the root of all the modern health and safety mollycoddling.

"Mummy knows better" has no place in a forum that purports to deal with open source hardware and software.

...R

AWOL:
but I'm a great believer in a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and unless you're equipped to, and capable of, reading a processor datasheet, you're going to be a very dangerous person indeed.

this comment of yours is patronizing

I prefer "patronising", but that's only because I'm British, though not Oxford-educated.

I'm Irish - we're better at English :slight_smile:

My "Concise Oxford English Dictionary" gives the "z" version first !

Usually it's just to keep american spellcheckers quiet.

...R

Usually it's just to keep american spellcheckers quiet.

No, it's because the 'z' form is Oxford spelling.

I know it's off-topic, but which dictionary prefers the "s" version?

(So I can complain to my english teacher friend who gave me the dictionary) :slight_smile:

...R

Going back to the original topic, how was my link not useful? Because you couldn't find what you were looking for? Or because you don't know how to sort out and find what you need? You prove to me that the majority of users of this forum would need to read the datasheets to understand how an Arduino works. You show me that writing any code for the Arduino would require one to read the datasheets first. Go ahead, give me a reason.

The only time I have ever needed to read the datasheet was when I started creating my own custom boards and needed to figure out the pin layout on an TQFP package and later on, setting the BOD. It's been several years now and I have yet to find a reason to get down into the nitty gritty of the AVR to be needing the datasheet.

Do you also have a datasheet on your car? A detailed explanation of every components, both mechanical, electrical, and the programming for the various computers? I highly doubt that. You accept that by turning the key in the ignition, the car should start and you're able to drive. That is the same for the majority of users on the forum when it comes to using an Arduino. Note, I am strictly referring to Arduino here (which is what these forums are for), NOT an AVR. Like AWOL said, if you are interested in the AVR, then feel free to head on over to AVRFreaks and set up camp.

I often supply a link to a datasheet when answering a question or problem solution to a poster, but that is because the question itself gives a useful context for using the datasheet and why such datasheets are useful.

Just posting datasheets prodomentally on the site would only be useful for lazy people that already understand what a datasheet is and when they need access to them. A beginner needs to be shown the value of a datasheet in context to an existing question or problem they are having for it to be a 'learning moment' in their life.

So the OP's original request is not useless but doesn't support the help he implies it will provide. Finding a datasheet one needs is usually trivial, knowing one needs to or how to use one is not.

Lefty