ok,i have been working on making a touchscreen.i had done it with arduino and processing,and i was planning on making it with some microcontrollers.i know c++,so i thought it would be easy, and i was depressed at how overcomplicated things actually are(or probably i am an idiot,which is depressing,too 
).would anybody please explain about bootladers,programmers etc.? 
and also if there is some cheaper alternative to building hid's?
Bootloader: The code in flash memory that gets executed immediately after power-up. Its primary purpose is to pre-configure the hardware to a known state before handing control over to the payload code (your program). Usually, there's some timeout delay to allow for interception, reprogramming, or some other alteration of typical startup sequence. In most Arduinos, you get a second (or a few) to send a serial command announcing your intention to break in and send a new program. Failing that, the main program code is executed until reset or loss of power. Technically, there doesn't have to be a bootloader. You can just write your main program directly. But, you lose the ability to upload sketches the "normal" way. (You can still reprogram via ICSP.)
Programmer: Hardware that connects to the ICSP (in-circuit serial/system programmer -- sometimes just called ISP) that is capable of writing new code to the chip's flash memory. You can use another Arduino's SPI (MISO, MOSI, SCK) or a standalone device like the AVR ISP mk-II.
You don't have to have a bootloader to run.
You do have to have a bootloader if you want to be able to upload programs to the chip via RS-232.
It takes an ISP (with P standing for Programmer) to load a bootloader to the chip or other software to a chip that has no bootloader.
The bootloader makes updating your code Easier and Cheaper, but it's not required.
If you want to be sure then surf over to www.atmel.com and start reading the docs.
hmmm....i i buy a new avr mcu,would it have bootloader?if not,then how to i put a bootloader in it?do i need to build a seperate circuit for programming with seperate bootloaders?
and i came across bootloadhid
what is this,some another bootloader which i have to put into mcu?please help
hmmm....i i buy a new avr mcu,would it have bootloader?if not,then how to i put a bootloader in it?do i need to build a seperate circuit for programming with seperate bootloaders?
If you buy a new AVR uC then it won't have bootloader on it , you have load bootloaders on it using the Arduino as ISP or AVR MK-II programmer or BitBang mode or make parallel or serial programmer(Hardest to do for you) or Buy a Arduino bootoader ecquipped uC many of the vendors in India sell bootloaded ATmega chips including me.
seperate bootloaders?
WHat you mean specifically with it.
what is this,some another bootloader which i have to put into mcu?please help
That bootloader is based on the Human Interface Device class meaning that when you connect your computer with the chip the bootloader acts/reacts with the computer similarly a HID interfaces information and other stuff here and there.
There are Specfic bootloaders for Arduino you dnt have to care for these.
if you want to make a HID device use the USB Host shield then you can interface almost anysort of HID input device with arduino like keyboards ,mouse etc easily.
many of the vendors in India sell bootloaded ATmega chips including me.
do you sell atmega's?can you send them by speed-post to haryana?
and btw,i am trying to develop an HID.i wanted to keep it as cheap as possible,that is why i moved on to avr's from arduino.as for bootloadhid,can i use the v-usb circuit given on the site.it is for hid.
do you sell atmega's?can you send them by speed-post to haryana?
Hmm i can ,where in Haryana are you located?
develop an HID
What sort of an HID you want to develop? Name it? Keyboard ,mouse??What exactly or all that?!!
USB Host shield?
USB Host shield?
OP striving towards making a AVR ATmega based HID device.
I didn't know there is such a thing, glad there is.
@NI$HANT i live at narnaul in mohindergarh distt..it's kind of a rural area. and i am working on usb hid mouse.
Ok no problem, I can send you chips if you want, but mouse with a AVR will not make out a low price hid device for you,if you want some robotic implication with that hid device then you are at the right place.
but mouse with a AVR will not make out a low price hid device for you,if you want some robotic implication with that hid device then you are at the right place.
can you please clarify how?
another bootloader.it says it "emulates" a programmer,but it would need to be flashed onto the mcu with the help of another programmer, right?
In India a hid like mouse can be had for about 100 Rcoupees and if you try to make it with an uC then only chip alone will cost around 200 for an ATmega8,and total cost you can imagine where it will reach.
You can make a HID device including mouse with a Tiny45 at center.
http://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/prjhid.html
Two examples are accelerometer mouse but I think more than a Tiny for the MCU.
I think that a not so cheap mouse with buttons that don't wear out is worth more than many of the cheapest meeses (from a very old cartoon, meeses is plural of mouse) you can find. I go through a common microswitch-button mouse in 4-6 months. Lifetime counts!
In India one can easily buy a mouse for about 2dollars that is a complete product price to the end customer I mean with packaging and all ,so very simply one can't achieve a cheaper design using a AVR, so as such it is only feasible for special implications, not a cheap hid mouse.
for 2 dollars?the mice might be using something else.what do mice use?if i use it,will it be easier or more difficult to implement?
If one mouse wears out in 1400-2000 hours use and another wears out in 8000-10,000 hours use then the comparative worths are not equal. If I made one to last over 20,000 hours, it would be worth even more.
How long do the $2 mouse buttons hold up good? Does the $2 mouse have roller? What is inertial mouse worth as opposed to laser mouse? What do you -get- for $2? It lasts how long in use-hours?
If one mouse wears out in 1400-2000 hours use and another wears out in 8000-10,000 hours use then the comparative worths are not equal. If I made one to last over 20,000 hours, it would be worth even more.
How long do the $2 mouse buttons hold up good? Does the $2 mouse have roller? What is inertial mouse worth as opposed to laser mouse? What do you -get- for $2? It lasts how long in use-hours?
The $2 Mice comes in both Track ball sort of and optical/laser mice both, The main competitors in the market in here are the high flying Indian and European(Logitech) giants from whom its very easy to get a high quality mice for about maximum $5 to $6 no problem and then even these companies have to face the fierce DUMPING from the Chinese manufacturing that is hard to beat you must be knowing the fact, Not only these chinese guys are Dumping $2 Mice but also you can have a Logitech mice for about $3 and that is end customer so in any case the whole seller would be getting it for about $2.5 approx., so one has to manufacture and make the product presentable in the market with packaging and all for about $1.75 and you would not be making more than $0.50 to $0.25.
about the life they land on pretty well , It works fine for about atleast 1 year no problem but then even if one ends up in 6 months which i have never seen they are pretty cheap, It;s the mentality of the customer too then behind procuring a product.
Now overview of availability of ATTiny45/85 in the Indian market , A single piece here retails for about $4(That is also very hard to get as im searching ATTiny85 throughout the wholesale market(Asian level) for electronics here in NEW DELHI and im not able to get one or even more) however if one will take up manufacturing then will pick these chips in bulk then the best rate would be around $3 from US and shipping will come extra.
Who am I to say all this?
My father is in Electronics since time immemorial to me, atleast its been more than 40 years of him making Electronic Circuits and selling them and he brought us up using the same profession and today im also in the same stream as you can see on the Arduino board but much more laid towards Computer Science than pure electronics(75%CompSci, 25% electronics), as such i have a very high level understanding of what is going in the market because we guys here not only make Circuits we are selling them also for the last 20 years in the Asia's known electronic markets such as Bhagirath Palace and Khasmere Gate.