Where is the line drawn on "following the rules"?

This is going to be a tricky one, both for me and the admin' people.

I am not the kind of person who delights in wasting people's time. I try to ask the "right" question to get a useful answer so I can learn.

I appreciate there are "rules" of how to conduct one's self and all the other "rules".

But where is the line? No one is perfect. I am getting bombarded with SMART ASS replies which really I don't see any point in the person wasting THEIR time replying when it isn't helping either of us.

Rather is is some derogatory statement about me, what I did, or how I did something.

"902 posts. Doesn't use code tags." is a good example.
So the person took the time to read the post (and maybe download the code - I don't know) and all they can say is that?

C'mon. Grow up! (to that person)

I am trying to learn (as said) and if THIS is how people help each other, it is a sadder world than the one I remember.

I admit I am not helping people. Sure! That's because I am not learning much, and the example people set here on how to behave is rather dismal.

If all poeple can do with their knowledge is deny others help and keep it to them selves, I think it is they who should be spoken to.

I have been THREATENED to be banned if I keep "doing stupid things". That IS bullying - no doubt about it.
What needs to be understood is people kill them selves because people speak to them like that.

Of course there will be "plausible deny ability" claimed, but gee: That is a poor reflection on the one who pushed the person too far.

It is becoming frightening for me to come here and ask questions (and learn - cough) because of how people respond.

I'm open to REAL suggestions, no sarcastic replies or put downs.
Every forum I visit has their own unique rules and staying in the set of rules for all the boards as I visit them is difficult.

Signing off now.
The notification box is ticked, but that doesn't seem to mean much as I mentioned in another post here.

The closest thing we have to forum rules is the "How to use this forum - please read." post:

That says:

  1. If you are posting code or error messages, use "code" tags

and:

  1. You can add attachments

If your code is too long to fit into a post, or you have multiple files (eg. code and libraries), or you want to show an image, click on the Additional Options button:...

You didn't follow the rules, plain and simple. Maybe at some point someone incorrectly told you to do otherwise. Unless that was accompanied by a change to the "How to use this forum - please read." post that doesn't mean the rules changed, it just means that some random forum member has a different idea about what's right. If they're trying to help you then it would be appropriate to say "I have attached the code as you requested but I'm also leaving it in code tags as required by the rules, thanks for your help."

You come here asking for help. The best way to achieve that goal is to follow the rules and be accommodating to the people who are spending their time to give you free help, not by whining. You did receive a solution on that thread after clearing up some misconceptions about what you were doing. I think it's worth dealing with a bit of grumpiness for that. If it crosses the line from grumpiness to abuse you might note that there is another rule:

Be polite

A little courtesy and politeness goes a long way. Even if you think a question has been asked before, or you don't see the point of it, try to answer politely. Remember a lot of the posters with high post counts see the same questions every day, and they may get a bit terse if you appear not to have tried very hard to help yourself in the first place. You will find that if you respond in a friendly way, people will stick with you and you will almost certainly get your problem solved. Personal insults are not acceptable. Stick to the topic.

lost_and_confused:
I have been THREATENED to be banned if I keep "doing stupid things". That IS bullying - no doubt about it.

No, that's enforcing the rules. If you break the rules you risk getting banned. If you don't want to be banned then just follow the rules. I don't see what's so difficult about that.

lost_and_confused:
Every forum I visit has their own unique rules and staying in the set of rules for all the boards as I visit them is difficult.

That doesn't make you exempt from the rules. I do think the "How to use this forum - please read." post should be reformatted or even split to give a more concise list of absolute rules and then a more verbose explanation of the details and general advice.

I am lost for words or how to reply.

It would seem I have to obey EVERY RULE and any .... mistakes I make will be punished.
That's how I am reading it.

How am I supposed to ask questions on thing I don't understand?

I have a "mere" less than 1000 posts and am being told off by people who have 50,000 posts.
How is that a comparison?

I'm not wanting pity or sympathy. I want to be treated as someone who has a right to ask questions with NO prior knowledge.

It is frustrating (no end) to me trying to learn and read stuff which is written for people who expect you to already know what is being said. Not qualifying things and how they were derived.
Sure that is put down to "research" but again I get back to the point that if people don't want to share their knowledge and simply point out mistakes others have made....... That's sad.

It now seems pointless to me to continue, as I feel I am simply wasting my time trying to explain my situation.

(Oh, and I am not receiving notifications. I shall check that thread out but am sure I will be blamed for doing something "wrong" there too.)

lost_and_confused:
It would seem I have to obey EVERY RULE and any .... mistakes I make will be punished.
That's how I am reading it.

How am I supposed to ask questions on thing I don't understand?

There is a very simple way to deal with that.

  • Be polite.

  • Be tolerant.

  • If you don't understand something then say so.

  • If you are uncertain then ask.

  • Help us to help you.

The regulars are here because we like to help people and we want others to enjoy their Arduinos. But we all have limited time.

I would much prefer to use my time helping someone who makes it easy to help him/her. For example if code is posted properly I can easily view it in my text editor and decide in few seconds if this is something I can help with. If the code is not posted properly I might waste 5 minutes before discovering I know nothing useful. And that 5 minutes could have been used to help someone else. The same goes for sensible titles on Threads and including links to datasheets etc.

...R

lost_and_confused:
It would seem I have to obey EVERY RULE and any .... mistakes I make will be punished.
That's how I am reading it.

You are reading it correctly. That's how rules work. I'm surprised you hadn't learned that as a young child, your parents must have done a very poor job of raising you.

lost_and_confused:
How am I supposed to ask questions on thing I don't understand?

Follow the rules, ask your question. What's so difficult about that?

lost_and_confused:
I have a "mere" less than 1000 posts and am being told off by people who have 50,000 posts.
How is that a comparison?

The only way that the number of posts is relevant is that when we tell someone on their first post to follow the rules it's the first warning. If you're still not following the rules after 900 posts it's likely that you've been told multiple times. At that point is seems that you just aren't willing to be a good member of the community.

lost_and_confused:
I'm not wanting pity or sympathy. I want to be treated as someone who has a right to ask questions with NO prior knowledge.

That's fine, that's exactly what this forum is for but you need to follow the rules.

Just to add my two cents / penny worth...

I prefer to refer to the sticky as 'etiquette' rather than 'rules'. As with many of the people who have posted in this thread my bugbear is people not using code tags, and not formatting their code if they do. New users I will point this out to, but if someone has double figure posts then I will ignore that thread, and I suspect that I'm not alone with that attitude.

dannable:
I prefer to refer to the sticky as ‘etiquette’ rather than ‘rules’.

That’s a good point. Unlike driving a car, no life will be lost by failing to follow the rules. And nobody is going to make a fuss if a newbie overlooks some of the rules provided the newbie acts on the advice given - for example updating their post to use code tags.

But when people who are not newbies fail to comply it suggests that they think their time is worth more than my time. It’s not.

…R

dannable:
I prefer to refer to the sticky as 'etiquette' rather than 'rules'.

I have the opposite opinion. I think this forum desperately needs a specific list of official rules. This would make it more likely that people would actually read them. All the "how to use this forum" parts of it should be separated out because only people who are confused about the mechanics of how to use the forum need to read all that but everyone should read the rules and understand that these are not "guidelines" or "etiquette", these are laws of the forum that must be followed.

pert:
but everyone should read the rules and understand that these are not "guidelines" or "etiquette", these are laws of the forum that must be followed.

The problem with an approach like that is that one wastes more resources on policing than are ever saved by compliance.

Polite behaviour and a tolerant friendly attitude will offset all sorts of unintended transgressions. But repeat transgressions could not be considered polite, tolerant or friendly.

...R

lost_and_confused:
I am lost for words or how to reply.

It would seem I have to obey EVERY RULE and any .... mistakes I make will be punished.
That's how I am reading it.

You're coming at this all wrong. No you won't be "punished" for an infraction. It will probably be pointed out and then you can fix it and do better next time and everyone moves on. You might be punished for repeated infractions of the same rule after being asked and warned multiple times. I don't think that's too unfriendly. I don't think it is too much to ask to have a simple set or rules that everyone can follow. It keeps things orderly.

Your problem is that you see someone pointing out the infractions as derogatory or punitive. That's on you man. Someone saying, "Hey, please use code tags and here is a link to the forum rules." is neither derogatory nor punitive.

It would seem I have to obey EVERY RULE and any .... mistakes I make will be punished.

If by "punished" you mean that you'll get some snide "smart ass" responses that point out that you didn't follow the rules, and aren't otherwise helpful, then...

  • Yes, I suspect so.
  • I think you should perhaps reflect a bit on the nature of "punishments" across the spectrum of human experience.

westfw:
I think you should perhaps reflect a bit on the nature of "punishments" across the spectrum of human experience.

LOL +1

...R

Where is the line drawn on "following the rules"?

In response to your thread heading -- the bottom line is that you are more likely to get a helpful response from the people who dedicate their time and knowledge to answering questions if you follow the recommended forum etiquette.

Don

As someone who has currently made 900+ posts you are treated a bit differently to someone who has made their first post. A newbie at the forum might not know that it is much easier to help with your code if you use code tags. They make the code more readable, and also stop lines like these showing in bold and italic:

foo [i] = bar [b];

If you choose to not follow the basic courtesy of following the How to use this forum page, then you might reasonably expect people to chastise you. The word "rule" doesn't appear on that page at all, by the way.

C'mon. Grow up! (to that person)

To be honest, much more of this childishness and I would be happy to ban you myself. Not using code tags after making 900 posts is just rude and "red ragging" the people who are trying to help you. It is also discourteous. It basically forces people to ask you to use code tags (to make your code readable) or edit your post yourself and do it for you.

I have been THREATENED to be banned if I keep "doing stupid things". That IS bullying - no doubt about it.

Not at all. Banning people (after making reasonable requests for them to change their behaviour) who flout the forum posting guidelines is about all we can reasonably do to you, and we will do it if you continue. This isn't bullying.