Why is it...

…that FTDI doesnt offer a dip variant of their USB to Serial chip?
I mean honestly. It is more or less a standard chip nowadays and would be THE tool or hobbyists…
Is there some reason for that?

supply and demand

hobby demand is a drop in the bucket compared to commercial demand

I am not sure it even amounts to a drop, more like vapor. Also not all fabrication facilities are equipped for DIL packing nowadays so it can be difficult to produce a DIL version.

ok, let me rephrase it: Why is it that there is no DIL USB-RS232 alternative whatsoever?

It just struck me yesterday while i was doing some search for a useful FTDI alternative that there is none. The closest i found was Igorplug - but this seemed not mature enough to work for a standalone Arduino…

ok let me rephrase it:-
what part of “no significant demand” do you not understand.

USB / serial requires quite a bit of processing power so it is only likely to be used in the newer fabs so they don’t do DIL packages.

Why do you think no one does one then? Conspiracy or just plane stupidity?

Conspiracy…

Or put another way, why don’t you use either the SMD version of those chips, which shouldn’t matter on bigger series - or get the FTDI modules on a print where you can solder the pins if you prefer which are sold in nearly every shop carrying Arduinos if you’re just building a few?

Korman

I think the closest you are going to get is the breakout boards that utilize that chip that some suppliers that market to hobbyist supply. Not cheap, but as already stated the semiconductor market is all about volume production and large quantity purchases. One example:

It was just curiosity.
I would rather guess that once SMDs have hit the market that DIL packages are always obsolete.
So why is it (to keep with this question ,0)) that stuff like our Atmels are still DILs yet other useful stuff does not exist in that package. Of course demand is always a good reason, but if i had to guess i’d say that there is also a much higher demand for 168er (e.g.) as SMDs than as DILs.

About the question why i dont use SMD stuff: Simple. I cant solder those ,0) Also i like bigger chips more, looks way better (dont ask me why ,0))

but if i had to guess i’d say that there is also a much higher demand for 168er (e.g.) as SMDs than as DILs.

ayep, that is why you can get smd packages at pretty much any time, but were waiting nearly 3 months for a limited batch run of dip versions which will sell out fast and not be produced again for another X months

About the question why i dont use SMD stuff: Simple. I cant solder those ,0) Also i like bigger chips more, looks way better (dont ask me why ,0))

Your not alone in disappointment that the semiconductor industry has been steadily moving away from DIP packages. Being in my 60s my eye sight and other age related limitations makes SMD something I really don’t want to deal with. Just be thankful the AVR still offers some in-production processors in DIP packages, this probably wont be the case in the next decade.

Lefty

So why is it that stuff like our Atmels are still DILs

Because they are old designs made in fabs that can handle them, if you look at the Atmel stuff little new products are being produced in DIL. It is also more expensive to make a DIL package than a surface mount package.

ok ok… i see the problem…

well well… got to life with the fact that i will need an extra FTDI converter then :0(

Anyway, interestering to know that about the limited batches - didnt know that it is so hard to get the atmel chips.

Just be thankful the AVR still offers some in-production processors in DIP packages, this probably wont be the case in the next decade.

Kinda makes you wonder what will be the next “stage” for garage level hobbyist work… Right now, you do have individuals hand soldering such chips, as well as oven baking and pan frying to get the job done - but there’s still a lot left to be desired.

I just wonder if at some point we’ll see hobbyist-level low-cost robotic assembly systems, or some kind of low-cost metal stencil fab, or a low-cost solder-paste printing system - or something that combines all of those and more.

Its rapidly getting to the point where to produce a homebrew design you nearly -need- some form of automated assembly process…

:slight_smile:

Just be thankful the AVR still offers some in-production processors in DIP packages, this probably wont be the case in the next decade.

Kinda makes you wonder what will be the next “stage” for garage level hobbyist work… Right now, you do have individuals hand soldering such chips, as well as oven baking and pan frying to get the job done - but there’s still a lot left to be desired.

I just wonder if at some point we’ll see hobbyist-level low-cost robotic assembly systems, or some kind of low-cost metal stencil fab, or a low-cost solder-paste printing system - or something that combines all of those and more.

Its rapidly getting to the point where to produce a homebrew design you nearly -need- some form of automated assembly process…

That’s why I recently pitched in for a hot air station.

or a low-cost solder-paste printing system

might be a task for a RepRap…
has someone already tried that (and published about it) ?

That’s why I recently pitched in for a hot air station.

Well, yes - everybody who’s interested needs to prepare to do SMT rework and new, etc (I really need to start playing in this arena - I’ve never done any, so far).

But I’m speculating what might happen 10-20 years down the line, when there aren’t -any- DIP parts outside of old/surplus/used/etc - and even today’s SMT parts are considered “large”…

What will hobbyists do then…?

Pure speculation, obviously, but something interesting to think about, IMHO…

:slight_smile:

eh maybe by then we can print IC’s on a deskjet

eh maybe by then we can print IC’s on a deskjet

Ehh, looks like us hobbyists will need to know how to manipulate graphine to keep up with the industry

I would rather guess that once SMDs have hit the market that DIL packages are always obsolete

Luckily SMD’s have actually been around quite a while and we can still get some things in DIP form.

There is no denying that we probably ONLY still see DIP Microcontrollers because the companies that make them realize that there is a reasonably big enough R&D as well as School Electronics courses to at least fund a few runs in the format.