Wifi and Bluetooth - can you really use them at mass production?

I know I have started a thread about something similar, but I am sure this subject must be discussed .

Today almost any electronic product on the market, is using Bluetooth or Wifi .
When you try to search for modules for mass production , you understand there is something strange.

The only 2 reasonable priced Bluetooth and Wifi modules , are HM-11 and ESP8266 . They both costs 1-5$.

The problem? no legitimate manufacture would agree to use them in your pcb, because they are not in any big components website (Mouser,Digikey,etc) . only at Ali .

If you try to look for alternatives , "legitimates", you find things like TI's wifi at 25-30$ , and Cypress bluetooth modules at 11$ and up even for mass production.

How you can sell any product, at a reasonable price, when only the Bluetooth costs 12$ at mass production?

It is so strange that nobody even talk about this, that this ridicules Bluetooth LE devices, that uses cc2540 TI chip that costs 1.5$ , comes to 12$ on a module with a simple pcb antenna ?

Ok, they have to go FCC , but can anyone sell a product at 39$, where 12$ is only the bluetooth ?

There is no viable business model to justify BLE/Wifi ,and I am not sure how some medium size companies can sell products with bluetooth LE at 25$ .

Any suggestions expect from developing our own circuit and go to FCC ( time+money+time) ?

gil22:
I know I have started a thread about something similar.....

That's true, so why start another thread? Why not just continue with the original? You shouldn't be cross-posting.

Mass production- my experience and your help.

gil22:
I know I have started a thread about something similar, but I am sure this subject must be discussed .

Today almost any electronic product on the market, is using Bluetooth or Wifi .
When you try to search for modules for mass production , you understand there is something strange.

The only 2 reasonable priced Bluetooth and Wifi modules , are HM-11 and ESP8266 . They both costs 1-5$.

The problem? no legitimate manufacture would agree to use them in your pcb, because they are not in any big components website (Mouser,Digikey,etc) . only at Ali .

If you try to look for alternatives , “legitimates”, you find things like TI’s wifi at 25-30$ , and Cypress bluetooth modules at 11$ and up even for mass production.

How you can sell any product, at a reasonable price, when only the Bluetooth costs 12$ at mass production?

It is so strange that nobody even talk about this, that this ridicules Bluetooth LE devices, that uses cc2540 TI chip that costs 1.5$ , comes to 12$ on a module with a simple pcb antenna ?

Ok, they have to go FCC , but can anyone sell a product at 39$, where 12$ is only the bluetooth ?

There is no viable business model to justify BLE/Wifi ,and I am not sure how some medium size companies can sell products with bluetooth LE at 25$ .

Any suggestions expect from developing our own circuit and go to FCC ( time+money+time) ?

have you looked at the cost of an iPhone ? Galixy 6 ?

your premise that because someone does not sell a thing, that it is not legitimate.
would you say that it is silly for you to sell anything because your offerings are not listed in DigiKey or Mouser ?

it seems you have some preconceived idea that only very low cost projects are possible to sell and that you are forced to sell at prices most of the world cannot even make them for.

the solution is to make 1,000,000 of them and get the lowest price possible for your parts,

what you seem to be finding out is that making parts in the real world is not cheap.
now, pay your slow workers $15 an hour to make a few parts per hour in a developed country, or pay 50 cents an hour labor in china and see how that effects your total costs.
have you tried to get the cost to have a box printed to put your parts in ?
find out how much bubble wrap envelopes cost

Part of your written business plan is to find out how much the final product cost will be
and how much you have to sell it for to the store so they can sell it and make a profit.

here is an interesting factoid. the taxes on gasoline in the USA are 3 times more than Mobil/Exxon makes on profit on a gallon of gas.

one simple fact, no one can compete with the low costs comming from China. in most countryies an Arduino UNO will be about 10 times more to make. unless your government gives you parts for free and you pay your labor 50cents an hour, you should not even bother looking at trying to compete with them.

and now you want to add the cost of getting a government certification ?
again, China is the governement AND the manufacturer. they do not have to add costs for that. you do.

in the end, if your product sells a lot of product, the chineese will make a copy and sell it for less for less than you can buy the parts.

gil22:
The problem? no legitimate manufacture would agree to use them in your pcb, because they are not in any big components website (Mouser,Digikey,etc) . only at Ali .

????
**Mouser Part #: ** 932-MIKROE-1769 (esp8266 - $27.00 each )

Digi-Key Part Number 1568-1235-ND (esp8266 - $6.95 each)

your premise is flawed. a 'legitimate' manufacture will make ANYTHING that is not illegal. you are the customer, and you tell them what you want, they do not care what parts or even if it works.

I am not sure I get these responds, one shows me an ESP for 27$ instead of 0.9$ (!!!)
(no manufacture said you will be able to use ESP in mass. )
The other is telling me stories on the foundations of China.

Bottom line, you still have to wonder how medium size company that can't buy 1000000 units, are existing and selling products at 39 with Bluetooth modules inside ?

There is almost no BLE at under 10$, add the rest of the parts, you are at 20, boxing and stuff 25$, bom! your business fails .

Bottom line, you still have to wonder how medium size company that can't buy 1000000 units, are existing and selling products at 39 with Bluetooth modules inside ?

@gil22:

It's simple ... the 1M unit companies are not paying $39 for a $3 unit. The printed online companies that show volume discounts such as DigiKey or Newark have the discount tables set-up for non-preferred customers. Preferred customers have a private price list provided to their buyer or purchasing agent. These numbers are significantly discounted and the discounts may apply on volume from future orders... in other words, 250K units in 1Q, 2Q, 3Q, and 4Q for 1M total. Obviously, there are penalties associated with non-fulfillment.

But for companies with no line of credit that wish to pay for a reel of Bluetooth devices, then the published web-price is likely close to the true price (and maybe why so many start-up fail.)

Ray

PS: the forum really has a negative attitude about double-posting. It is best to just not do it...

Ray , something is missing here. Do you have an idea how many companies sell 1 million units a year of a hardware product ? not many .

Most of the time, there are companies which are very big, but yet sell 5000 units a year, for example all bluetooth headphones companies that you know how much they sell, and its not more then 5000.

So how can they sell a product at 29$ when a bluetooth device cost 12$ ? or even 9$ ?

"The forum has negative attitude about double posting" , well this is a strange thing for an adult, specifically in this field, to be angry on someone in a forum that is not doing as he said.

I am a free person, and in my opinion, posting this in a different thread is relevant. If they think different, its only their own opinion, and they should finally get the fact that the world is not a micro-chip - we are not always align with their own desires .

gil22:
Ray , something is missing here. Do you have an idea how many companies sell 1 million units a year of a hardware product ? not many .

it is simple.
buy 1 million of your part,
take out your 50 thousand.
take your cost, divide by 950 thousand.
sell 900 lots of 1,000 for the low price, they wiil move fast.

and in the end, your parts were free.

as for your comments do you honestly think that the large companies are buying 90 cents of parts and selling it for $39 ?
if it costs $35 to make and you sell a million, you put $4,000,000 into your pocket. do that with 10 products or 50 products.

It seems you are being self educated in the facts of life in business.

what Ray was aludiing to was that if one company buys 5m of a part, another buys 4 million of a part, the seller is only 1m from the next quantity break and, if they can reach that, they can buy lower and sell high. so, they can call up a preferred and offer the 10m rate for 1 mill of parts, make no $$ on that 1 mil but double profits in 9 mill of parts.
happens all day long.

Bottom line, which is very sad, is that if you try to build a company and start with 3000 units (its a lot), you will have to sell your product with zero revenue ( or a premium price which anyway will crash your startup).

Nobody , (expect from Apple), will start by manufacturing more then 10k units, even large companies.

Still no answer here.

Everything is cheap, expect bluetooth and Wifi which eliminate you from using them ( unless you are a non profit)