DigiKey offers a free on-line schematic tool that some of you might want to look into.
A proper schematic drawing is the universal language of electronics.
Lefty
It seems to me the reasonable thing to do when someone posts a breadboard image that you find unsatisfactory, is to request a schematic image. Do this enough, and people will realize that the schematic images (or both schematics and breadboard images) are preferred, and somewhat necessary if you are to get more help. Same as when people post one-sentence bug reports, and people ask for detailed steps to replicate the bug before trying to help.
Personally, I think it would be great if people posted both. Those who don't understand schematics yet would get exposed to them with the breadboard side-by-side.
I am against the subject heading, in the sense if this is a "Vote".
I much prefer the Frizing picture when a new persons describes their circuit as it is much more likely to reflect what they HAVE wired up, rather than the schematic.
W0W! Liudr the Fritzing Specialist 8) 
NI$HANT:
W0W! Liudr the Fritzing Specialist 8)
Not really. I just use a tool for what I perceive it is good for.
Not really. I just use a tool for what I perceive it is good for.
To be true I have never seen such a nicely designed fritzing , its so professional that its actually good for fritzing having users like you
Indeed, I did the first diagram professionally, meaning it was part of a contract project. It requires some patience.
It is a little funny.
"Kindergarden", "use a proper program", "Fritzing is like a kindergarten kid drawing scribbles on paper and saying "hey look, look, look at my pretty drawing!"
All ending up in a "because I don't like it, it should be banned".
At some other fora, you can find almost the exact same wording regarding the Arduino:
Randomly searching the internet quickly gave quotes like these:
I hate Arduino as it brings something that should require skill and fundamental understanding to a market that has none
Also, lose the ‘duino and make your own board with an ATMEL or PIC chip. Using a ‘duino is like shouting “I don’t know what I’m doing”
No it dos not bring anything to beginners except dumbing them down. Just like Lego Mindstorm dos not make you robotic engineer no matter how much you want this to be true, it just a toy appropriate for children but looks stupid in adults hands
But as always, Poe's Law is not irrelevant.
I'll tell you why?
Also, lose the ‘duino and make your own board with an ATMEL or PIC chip. Using a ‘duino is like shouting “I don’t know what I’m doing”
These are some jealous people who do not like the idea of getting that knowledge to the general masses which was in the hands of engg. and now if not that great deeds they can do as compared to a full blown computer engineer they can atleast do "a lot today" about which they just imagined about till Arduino became the reality, so it takes a lot of limelight from the Avg. engg. (not all engg. are that good many just do what is already done but Arduino took away that with boosting DIY and open source eco-system!)
Tell them that an Arduino is nothing but just another 'AVR'
No it dos not bring anything to beginners except dumbing them down. Just like Lego Mindstorm dos not make you robotic engineer no matter how much you want this to be true, it just a toy appropriate for children but looks stupid in adults hands
Plain Ignorance PERIOD
No it dos not bring anything to beginners except dumbing them down. Just like Lego Mindstorm dos not make you robotic engineer no matter how much you want this to be true, it just a toy appropriate for children but looks stupid in adults hands
WOW! That underlined passage above is one of the stupidiest sentences I ever had the mispleasure to read.
I sit with my nephew playing with his Mindstorm kits and we simply lose track of time. And it is fun. And at the end I few a little bit smarter than before, and so does him. Sometimes his grandfather (who's got a post-doctorate in Physics) also joins us.
Whoever wrote that sentence had absolutely no idea what (s)he was talking about.
I've been training future electrical engineers for quite some time. Most of these are self-centered but are among the brightest. They take pride in what they know (mostly not known by non-ECE wannabes) and don't deal with others or seek very well. I can put the above remarks in many of their mouths. I happen to remember a classmate (not engineer) that we kind of dismiss as a looney. He said that a certain fake religious scripture was a lot more logical than a much older book written by a co-founder of sociology. But when asked, he has honestly replied that he has read neither. I bet a lot of these Arduino remarks were made out of pure speculation. There is no real experience with Arduino but an opinion has already formed. It's pretty sad that some very smart people tend to close their minds like that.
It's pretty sad that some very smart people tend to close their minds like that.
Yes Sir and then they tend to loose on Innovation , one needs to be humble and understanding of real facts with open mindedness.
People simply need to talk to each other. Unless you are some kind of genius, you need statistics to work for you. More interactions, more chances something good comes out.
The discussion derailed a bit, but I'd like to go back to one of the opening arguments:
all it produces is a jumbled mess that is impossible to read other than the person that made it
Yes, if you make an sloppy and unplanned drawing..... it will be ugly and messy. And it will probably be so no matter if you draw it on a piece of 5-digit software or on the back of a napkin. For a beginner, the result will probably be better using a napkin!
Etch-a-sketch'es and ballpoint pens are notorious for the crimes they can do to your eyes, but properly used, the results can be rather stunning.
Drawn with an etch-a-sketch:
Source: http://www.etch-a-sketchartist.com/etchasketches/?e=self_portrait
And with a ballpoint pen:
Source: http://thatslikewhoa.com/sexy-ballpoint-pen-art/
I even find liudr's "good" drawing difficult to follow without inspecting it, whats the shift register pin functions? whats the value of the pot? whats those two black squares? I think I know where the wires are going on the arduino, but I have never in my life owned an official board with an official footprint so I dunno? why is the first wire from the left on the LED's shorted to ground? why is the 3rd and 4th wire from the left on the LED's shorted? Are the two yellow wires on the LED's connected in the middle or is that an optical illusion of a box I sometimes see
Oh I see I gotta find download and read another document to find out what a single schematic would have told me. Simple!
When I see some medical x-rays and some ultra-sound images, I know absolutely nothing that is going on. Ok, x-rays are easier, but ultra-sound is just for the very trained eye. Even more modern image diagnostics methods, that give you clear near-photographic quality images, still require lots of training to understand and know what is going on with that patient.
The same goes for engineering (all types) schematics. Even some Fritzing drawings still require you to know before hand how a LED works, what are the GND and PWR pins on a 595, and so on. So, all one needs is training and some background information.
yes but a schematic doesnt make me guess, nor decipher a SVG drawing of a picture of a breadboard, I sincerely do not think any of the issues I brought up would have been there if it was a real schematic, I would know if those wires were shorted or not, I would know what value that pot was, I would know what pins are used on the arduino, I would know those two black squares are connectors, I would know what polarity the LED's were without tracing wires and busses.
your equating x-ray images and ultra-sound images to a drawing trying to illustrate a technical document, and photographic quality doesnt mean much with electronics depending on what components you choose, hince the symbols for those components.
Its not an art class, its a blueprint.
Fritzing is nice. I use it sometimes to print an easy to use setup for later use. I like Fritzing type diagrams also easy to follow when doing breadboard stuff.
I consider my shift register drawing a bad one. I think if you don't have ICs with many pins (say more than 8), drawing in Fritzing is not so hard and you produce a connection diagram that is easy to check against the actual circuit. Not everyone needs to know pin numbers. If I just hire someone with electrical skills to build that system with sonic rangers, I'm better off with that diagram than giving him a schematic since the electrician may no nothing about ICs. Along this line, I think some photographic like details are useful in certain places. Here's a matrix keypad I drew and integrated multitap function of my phi-panel: (please say they look nice and useful!!!)
oh I am the first one to hit inkscape to generate graphics for the front end, but your not trying to tell me how this thing is connected, your showing me the layout of the buttons and what functions they do