Emitter & Photo transistor

Hi, I am trying to test this photo transistor with an emitter.
The specification of the photo transistor is this.
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And, the specification of the emitteris this.
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I successfully got the emitter glowing. I've looked through a digital camera and I've checked a beautiful light was glowing.
The schematic for the emitter is this.
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Please ignore the 1N4004 in the circuit as I've taken it out from there.

I also, got the photo transistor working. I connected a DC geared motor in the circuit and I beamed a light. The motor spins well whether I beam a light.
The shematic for the photo transistor is this.
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The problem is, the transistor is not responding to the emitter at the moment.
Not at all.
Could you advise me what have I done wrong?
As you see, the operating voltage of the emitter is 1.5VDC, 60mA. So I supplied 1.5V using a variable DC adaptor(1.5~13V, 600mA). I tried to put a normal LED in the place where the emitter was.
LED is not blinking.

The forward voltage is not the voltage you should supply, its the voltage at which the LED starts conducting. You can use any voltage (assuming its well above the forward voltage) providing you put a resistor to limit the current to within its ratings. Its maximum forward current is 60mA. Take the forward voltage from the supply voltage and then select a resistor which will limit the current from whats left. If you used 5v then you work with 5 - 1.5 = 3.5v. Using V=IR 3.5=0.06 * X where X is the value of the resistor. X = 3.5/0.06 = 60 ohms (OK 58.33 :wink: ) (0.06 is 60mA) In practice thats a minimum for 5 volts, LEDs will usually light up at a small fraction of their maximum forward currrent. Personally I'd start with around 200-500 ohms and feed it directly from the digital pin (forget the transistor). An LED including an IRED should always have a resistor. The less you stress them, the longer they last.

Hi, how are you?
Thank you for letting know that. I appreciate that.
I just had a test using 200ohm and 500ohm by arranging the circuit like this.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34955071@N02/3870114180/sizes/l/
And I brought the emitter to the photo transistor and still no reaction.
So, I changed the resistance to 60ohm and this time, the transistor reacts to the emitter.
But, it reacts only when I touch it with the emitter.
So, as you mentioned, this circuit needs 5v supply.
Can I ask how to arrange the circuit with 5V supply?

Increase the resistance on the photo transistor. It increases the voltage change for a given light pickup. A phototransistor can only shift so much current for a given light input, if you can't increase its light input, decrease the amount of current it needs to move with a higher value resistor. I've just set up a phototransistor on an interrupt to time the blinking of an LED on an electric meter. It was easier getting a clean cutoff with a 470k resistor than with a 100k one. The alignment with the LED was critical with the 100K, somewhere near worked with the 470k. Its all about the relative numbers of photons and electrons. Experiment with a digital multimeter its easy to see the voltage change as you change the alignment and resistance values. You're likely to cook the arduino pin directly feeding the emitter through a 60ohm resister. They can only sink 40mA. For experimenting you could use the 5V output you can pull 200mA from that.

Taking my own advice I had a go at my troublesome spinning disk Electric meter sensor. I had 620 ohms on the LED and 430K on the photo transistor. I halved the LED to 300R and doubled the photo transistor to 860k. What a transformation - Its 'contrast' ratio between 'on' and 'off' improved dramatically.

Hi, thanks a lot.
I don't have resistors with me right now.
I will get it tomorrow and test.
I will come back. :slight_smile:

Hi, how are you? :slight_smile:
I just tested.
I increased the resistance on the photo transistor from 100ohm to 470ohm. But, the transistor doesn't responded to the emitter even though I keep the alignment and distance stable.
I am keep checking on the emitter through a digital camera whether the infrared is eluminated off from the emitter.
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It works. but when I bring the emitter to the photo transistor, the photo transistor doesn't disturbed by the emitter whether I change the resistance of the transistor to 430kohm(860k) and 620ohm(or 300ohm) on the emitter.
This link shows the wiring status of the resisters.
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photo transistor from 100ohm to 470ohm.

That should be the value on the photo transistor not the emitter.

whether I change the resistance of the transistor to 430kohm(860k) and 620ohm(or 300ohm) on the emitter.

See above comment.
Basically emitter should be a low value and transistor should be a high one.
see my project:-
http://www.thebox.myzen.co.uk/Hardware/Sneak_Thief.html

Hi, Please correct me if I am wrong.
I did put lower resistance value on the emitter than the photo transistor side.
I tried 300ohm on the emitter, 860Kohm on the photo transistor.
620ohm(or 300ohm) on the emitter, 430kohm on the photo transistor.

OK, that's right, however, that's not what you said in the previous post.

I was wondering whether I've chosen a right emitter & receiver couple.
Maybe the spectral characteristics of emitter and the receiver are not matched. Otherwise, my wiring on the emitter and the receiver were wrong. I don't know. because, I've been playing and keep modifying those circuits with different resistance for many times. ;D
Could you take a look at the characteristics specification of emitter and receiver through below link?

http://www.eleparts.co.kr/epdf/SENSOR/ST-1CL3H.pdf

http://www.eleparts.co.kr/epdf/SENSOR/EL-1CL3.pdf

Yes I would say that they were not very compatible. Look at the peak wavelength. For the emitter it is about 950nm and for the detector it is 800nm. The detector only has a 40% sensitivity at the wavelength your emitter is putting out.

What arrangement do you have? Is the detector's resistor in the emitter (of the detector) or the collector? It needs to be in the collector with the emitter grounded. The illuminance versus collector current suggests you should be using at least a 50K resistor if not a 500K one.

Better still use the detector as part of a darlington pair to get the gain up like in my sneak thief project.

What exactly have you connected to the photo transistor that isn't responding ? If you're limiting current through a high value resistor, you can only connect a very high impedance detector to it such as a digital voltmeter or an input pin on an arduino.

Make up a circuit like below and put a voltmeter across ground and the test point. Make the LED an ordinary red one since your photo transisitor is more sensitive to that than the IR you have. (Its also obvious if its lighting up). If it working properly, you should have a voltage close to 5v when the LED is off and close to 0 when the LED is on. It will gain you some experience in what you're trying to achieve. See what effect changing the resistors and the alignment of the LED and PT has on the voltage. If you can get it to switch between well above 2V and well below 2V then its suitable to be picked up by a digital pin at the test point.

Yes I would say that they were not very compatible. Look at the peak wavelength. For the emitter it is about 950nm and for the detector it is 800nm. The detector only has a 40% sensitivity at the wavelength your emitter is putting out.

What arrangement do you have? Is the detector's resistor in the emitter (of the detector) or the collector? It needs to be in the collector with the emitter grounded. The illuminance versus collector current suggests you should be using at least a 50K resistor if not a 500K one.

Thank you. Yes, I contacted the supplier of the photo transistor and the emitter today. He said, even though the peak wavelength and the spectral sensitivity is not in the exact same spec, that doesn't mean the photo transistor never responds to that IR emitter. He said, I need to check on the circuit because the photo transistor must be responeded to IR within 10mm range.
On the photo transistor side, I've been keep testing it with a razor pointer as the IR emitter doesn't have any effect on the photo transistor.
I use a razor pointer like this one.
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I tested with so many resistance value on thephoto transistor, but 40kohm was the maximum resistance(at 9v) for the photo transistor. Otherwise, the photo transistor never responds even to the razor pointer if I put more than 40kohm.
This is the circuit.
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On the IR emitter side, I put 60ohm which is the minimum resistance value(at 5V) for the emitter.
This is the circuit.
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When I put resister in the collector with the emitter grounded, the motor just spins regardless of any detection of beam.

Better still use the detector as part of a darlington pair to get the gain up like in my sneak thief project.

Do you have the specification of your darlington pair? how much is the price? Because I need to use a lot of those IR emitters and detectors.
The Ir emitter and the detector I am using now costs little. so.....for the cost saving....

What exactly have you connected to the photo transistor that isn't responding ? If you're limiting current through a high value resistor, you can only connect a very high impedance detector to it such as a digital voltmeter or an input pin on an arduino.

Make up a circuit like below and put a voltmeter across ground and the test point. Make the LED an ordinary red one since your photo transisitor is more sensitive to that than the IR you have. (Its also obvious if its lighting up). If it working properly, you should have a voltage close to 5v when the LED is off and close to 0 when the LED is on. It will gain you some experience in what you're trying to achieve. See what effect changing the resistors and the alignment of the LED and PT has on the voltage. If you can get it to switch between well above 2V and well below 2V then its suitable to be picked up by a digital pin at the test point.

I connected a DC geared motor in the photo transistor circuit so that the motor could spin when the detector responds.
Thank you for the great schematics for my further experimentation.
I supplied 4.8v to the that circuit and the volt meter shows 4.53v when the LED is off, and shows 4.38v when the LED lights up.
So, I beamed the razor pointer to the photo transistor then, the value is 2mV. When I flash a light(normal flash light), it shows 3.7V.
So, I arranged an IR emitter circuit on the arduino and I brought it to the photo transistor. The volt meter shows 1.4v when I touch the photo transistor with the IR emitter. When i bring back a little bit like 5mm the voltage was 2.5V(when well aligned). I must apart those IR emitter and the photo transistor at least 5mm for my final application.
Anyway, I tried to get an arduino digital pin on the test point you mentioned. The digital pin reading showed "1" when there is no beam of IR emitter. When I touch the photo transistor with the IR emitter, the reading was "0". in between, it showed just "1". So, I changed it to analog read. This is the reading from the serial monitor.

start

932

927

926

923

923

925

928

929

934

937

929

924

917

913

906

897

875

845

765

684

656

586

572

561

550

563

582

601

609

575

426

484

432

397

365

337

286

192

233

177

167

55

9

7

3

2

3

5

4

4

4

4

3

4

5

5

6

4

2

2

1

4

4

5

3

5

7

6

5

6

5

4

6

7

6

6

5

6

6

5

15

80

215

240

184

160

83

75

67

62

29

73

56

15

11

12

11

13

14

13

14

41

48

22

29

18

19

36

31

23

30

31

56

62

72

117

135

138

142

128

147

170

157

176

177

169

163

168

174

199

167

178

175

176

167

167

165

162

168

164

172

161

165

181

202

217

223

229

271

314

369

435

457

495

527

As i bring the IR emitter to the photo transistor, the value decreased significantly. But, it is only decreasing when the IR emitter reach to a point where it almost touches the photo transistor.

I've been keep testing it with a razor pointer as the IR emitter doesn't have any effect on the photo transistor.

The laser pointer is in the visible region so the detector will be even more insensitive to that sort of light.

Do you have the specification of your darlington pair?

No you use your photo transistor as one of the transistors and you use another small signal transistor as the second transistor and wire them up as a darlington pair. That is put the emitter of your detector to the base of the second transistor and wire the two collectors together. Then treat the whole thing like one transistor. Like I did in the circuit for my project:-
http://www.thebox.myzen.co.uk/Hardware/Sneak_Thief.html

So don't use the laser and get a matched emitter.

Hi, thanks a lot for showing me that.
I've been trying to find IR emitters that matchs the specification of the photo transistors I have and vise versa.
I needed cheap products. Among those cheap range, I couldn't find any thing that matchs for the peak wavelength, spectral sensitivity.
I think I need to use at least 150pcs of emitters, and 70pcs of photo transistors. ;D
I am dying to know the alternative solution!!!
Since the photo transistor I am using now responds to a high intensity light, shall I just use cheap LEDs that have high brightness like this one?
http://www.eleparts.co.kr/data/design/product_file/T03/T03RC-005(Red).pdf
will this work?

Well that miss match will give you a 60% sensitivity instead of a 40% sensitivity. So better but no coconut.

I would first try your emitter with a 75 to 100R resistor as I don't think it is being driven hard enough. It has a maximum rating of 60mA and 75R would give you about 50mA which is safe enough.

I just tried with 75ohm and 100ohm resistors.
It is not working. I don't understand what is wrong with me or the emitter.

mingki,
I have sent you a personal message about this, check the banner at the top of the web page.

Your analogue readings on my circuit show that the circuit is working but not its very sensitive. You didn't say what value resistors you were using. ( did you try an ordinary red LED ?). I'd leave the LED where it is and increase the value of the one on the phototransistor. You'll get a bigger voltage drop with 1000k (1mega ohm) than you will with 100k. The value isn't critical, somewhere in the region will do. But increasing the value means the PT has to sink less current to achieve a voltage drop. The digital won't respond until the voltage drops below about 2v (around 400 on the analogue reader).