Sorry I don't know where else to post this, so please redirect this topic if you know where it belongs.
I'm an Arduino programmer and I access the Atmega328 on the hardware register level, so in a way I'm going beyond the standard Arduino language. I'm also creating projects for a company and they want me to sign a legal Agreement which talks about "Intellectual Property" and ownership.
Knowing that Arduino is all open source how does this affect the Agreement? Where is the distinction between regular programming practices and Propriotery methods?
I imagine that ultimately the code cannot be copy written and the Intellectual Property is in the specific approach to the project..
k7michal:
Knowing that Arduino is all open source how does this affect the Agreement?
You need to hire a lawyer for that question. I suggest doing it sooner rather than later. The Arduino API is licensed under LGPL. I believe you can find the exact version in the source files.
I imagine that ultimately the code cannot be copy written...
IANAL, but I'd guess that the IP and confidentiality concerns will be around the code you write for your employer. The fact that it runs on an open source arduino has nothing to do with the case.
Quote from: k7michal on Today at 08:08:39 PM
Knowing that Arduino is all open source how does this affect the Agreement?
You need to hire a lawyer for that question. I suggest doing it sooner rather than later. The Arduino API is licensed under LGPL. I believe you can find the exact version in the source files.
Yes, thank you I'll look into it.
Quote
I imagine that ultimately the code cannot be copy written...
The code you develop?
yes the code that I write.
Your code is yours to do with whatever pleases you.
Aren't you going to run your program on a standalone Atmega chip anyway?
I imagine that ultimately the code cannot be copy written... The code you develop? ... yes the code that I write.
Your code is yours to do with whatever pleases you.
In the U.S., the phrase "work for hire" makes all the difference. If the agreement is "work for hire" then the person paying the bill owns the copyright. Otherwise, the person creating the material (you) owns the copyright.
Regardless of what you create, if you use any part of the Arduino API or any Arduino compatible libraries then you really should consult a lawyer about the implications. You need to especially cautious with libraries. Some are released under a more restrictive license than the LGPL.
wildbill:
IANAL, but I'd guess that the IP and confidentiality concerns will be around the code you write for your employer. The fact that it runs on an open source arduino has nothing to do with the case.
Not necessarily. It could be very important because some "open source" is more open than others.
For example, the employer may want to keep all the code in the final product/project private (closed).
While most of the Arduino libraries that are provided with the IDE are LGPL not all of them are.
(A few are GPL v3)
Plus there are a number of 3rd party Arduino libraries that are not LGPL.
Depending on the license of the libraries used in the project, the final project/project may not
be allowed to be closed source.
For example, if you use a GPL v3 library in your code, then all the code including the code you write
becomes GPL and you must disclose it (the project/project cannot be closed) and make it open source.
So if the employer wants to ensure that it owns the full IP of the project and is not subject
to opening up its source, the use of GPL, (avoiding especially GPL v3 libraries becomes critical).
Without seeing the language of the agreement it is all speculation.
[quote author=Coding Badly link=topic=156057.msg1169730#msg1169730 date=1364086878]
In the U.S., the phrase "work for hire" makes all the difference. If the agreement is "work for hire" then the person paying the bill owns the copyright. Otherwise, the person creating the material (you) owns the copyright. [/quote]
That is my point. You can choose to write your code for somebody else under any contract, because the code you write is yours to sell / give away / keep for yourself.
bperrybap:
For example, the employer may want to keep all the code in the final product/project private (closed).
Technically they will fail. The Atmel chipset use in Arduino is not secure based, to read firmware/code all is needed semi-invasive attacks.
start with the removal of the chip package, put chip’s die under suitable microscope with a little time and skill, the firmware/code will be out.
This much like people put lock on door, It will stop owner if he forget carry key, but not do much if Pro want in
Keys (just as the protection in these Atmel chips) are designed to prevent crime of opportunity.
A person with lack of moral is walking down the street and sees an unlocked car. "Oh look, I don't have to walk after all!"
bperrybap:
For example, the employer may want to keep all the code in the final product/project private (closed).
Technically they will fail. The Atmel chipset use in Arduino is not secure based, to read firmware/code all is needed semi-invasive attacks.
start with the removal of the chip package, put chip’s die under suitable microscope with a little time and skill, the firmware/code will be out.
This much like people put lock on door, It will stop owner if he forget carry key, but not do much if Pro want in
Sure there are always way to steal something.
This is not what I'm referring to at all.
You have missed the entire point.
What I'm referring to is open source vs closed source projects/products
and the use of open source when creating projects/products.
"open source" is where the author willing publicly shares the source code vs
"closed source" where the author chooses not to publicly share the source code.
Not all "open source" is licensed the same.
Some licenses (GPL v3 for example) require that
the entire final work be open source as the "price" for using a GPL v3
component.
If a company does not wish to create an open source project/product
then it may mandate in contractor contracts that it own all the IP
including copyrights for the final work.
k7michal specifically asked about Arduino being open source and how it might
affect such a contract.
This is a very good and relevant question, since as I stated earlier not all open
source is licensed the same. This is particularly true in the Arduino world as
while Arduino is "open source",
there are different open source license agreements on different libraries
including the ones that ship with the IDE.
If the IP agreement requires that the company own the IP and copyrights
of the final work in order to keep the final work closed source, the contractor
must be very careful to ensure not to use any components that demand that the final
work be open source.
Depending on the IP contract, it may even preclude using any open source.
So yes the IP contract can have big implications on
what type of open source, if any, can be used.
bperrybap:
Sure there are always way to steal something.
This is not what I'm referring to at all.
You have missed the entire point.
I will not use steal as description of technology. This technology will be life saver for person lost source code and try to get it back.
There are 2 group persons, one is in steal, one is in anti-steal. I am used be working project at second group. I know we have better resource, but they have higher IQ. You entire point is well noted.
I realised after reading all this that I'm simply making custom R&D tools which will not see the public eye for now..... However maybe some time in the future there might be talk of releasing some version of these tools...
