please help with WS2811 led IC

Hello all,

I recently bought LED strips that has 2811 IC.
I had no idea 2811 is so different from 2801 as it has no clock wire.
can someone help me with Arduino coding for that ?
As all samples online are for the 2801 and use both Data and clock lines, the 2811 seems to have only data line.
I have no idea how to get started with that.
I attached the PDF datasheet

Thanks,

Dror

WS2811-preliminary-EN.pdf (321 KB)

I could be interpreting this wrong, but I think you send it all the information, for all the LEDs in the string, then pull the reset low >50us. This is actually not that different from the WS2801 or WS2803 with the exception that those use 2-wire communications. The WS2811 uses 1-wire.

I'd say, start experimenting. Take the code for the WS2801, get rid of the CLK lines since this one doesn't have one anyway, and change the reset timing. See what happens.

I don't think you can do it. If you look at the timing you have to be accurate to 100nS and there simply isn't enough time in a 16MHz processor to do that, it turns out to be about two clock cycles. Even in machine code the overhead of reading data and producing those two diffrent waveforms times is too tight. I think you will have to have a diffrent processor, one that runs faster. Or a very fancy piece of hardware.

Ah, I missed that part ... Hrm, maybe the newer AT32UC3 MCUs?

I experianced it a lot like you said, using one wire, without the clock. it just doesn't work. it could be the clock speed as I tried different pauses. any other idea for Arduino implementation with this 2811 ? can you send me simple sample code, based on the HIGH/LOW needed, maybe I do something wrong as I'm not expert.

I knew I shouldn't trust the guy selling me 2811 saying it's same as 2801, now I have 600 useless leds...

Thanks for your help

it just doesn't work.

Yes that is what I said. The signals it requires are too fast to do with an arduino, at least not in a way I can think of. It requires signals with a resolution of 100nS, that is an accuracy of 10MHz, as the Arduino has a clock of only 16MHz then you can't do it. The best I could think of is if you made some sort of shift register / counter arrangement with a 10MHz clock and some handshaking inputs. Even then you would have to run the whole thing from machine code with the interrupts off. Another point, there is a line on that chip that puts it into double speed mode. If that is set on your strip then you are in even more trouble.

Negative feedback is probably your only course of action.

ha ha, he was fine, very good service, even sent me the Datasheet before. I just trusted him too much... my fault.

how about using my computer with the usb or something like that ? I know VB programming if it can help.

Dror

No that won't help, you need to generate two signals, one is high for 0.5uS and low for 2uS and the other is high for 1.2uS and low for 1.3uS. These represent your zeros and ones. Then you need to stream them out in a package of 24 bits per LED in your strip, that is not so much of problem.

You can't generate signals of that sort without either a fast processor that is not wrapped up in an operating system or some external hardware like a fist full of logic gates or better still a small FPGA. This is probably what is used on the controllers they sell for this product.

I will contact supplier and get 2801. it will be much easier.
after your answer, i did an experiment with some direct port coding, it seems to have some resaults.
something like:
PORTD = B00000100;
for (int i = 0 ; i < t ; i++ ) {
asm(“nop\n\t”);
}
PORTD = B00000000;
where t is the pause cycles, so far 0 is the best break.
what do you think ? good direction ?

The problem is that at 16MHz each clock pulse of the mico takes 62.5nS and you are trying to make a signal that has a resolution of 100nS. So you have to do the whole thing in machine code, that includes the for / next bit. You will notice also that 62.5nS is not a multiple of 100nS so it is not going to be a precise signal. If you had a 20MHz processor then things divide a bit better allowing you two clock cycles per resolution. This is still not going to be easy to code but you might stand more of a fighting chance.

Not all machine code instructions take one clock cycle many take more so I don't see how you have the time to generate this sort of signal. You might be better off trying this with a propeller chip in machine code.

Since some of the Atmel chips claim 'up to 20MHz', what if he builds a standalone unit with a 20MHz crystal?

Since some of the Atmel chips claim

No it is all the chips. Yes you could do that, I have built a 644 system to run my reprap, but it is only 20MHz so it is not a great advantage. A propeller on the other hand can run up to 80MHz.

as I said I'm not a pro but let me see if I get it right: the most important thing is not the time of sending high and low, it can be slower and have few cycles AS LONG AS you don't trigger the Return commend! but to trigger this, you need above 50 microsecends break. so, all the IF, LOOP ect will not take that long and not trigger the return as long as you keep sending HIGH/LOW data, I can trigger high low fast enough with the PORTD command and also have a tolerance of ±150ns for each bit HIGH/LOW. am I right with this direction?

Grumpy_Mike: No it is all the chips. Yes you could do that, I have built a 644 system to run my reprap, but it is only 20MHz so it is not a great advantage. A propeller on the other hand can run up to 80MHz.

Then grab one of the new UC3 Atmels ... 66MHz. Or their ARM series ...

Is there support yet for the UC3 series, for Arduino that is. Anyone know if cores have been developed yet?

Just to sum things up here for future searches: you were right, even with lots of tries, my way may work with 1-5 leds, but as soon as I go to 20-50, it just doesn't. I get a lot of inconsistency. I gave it up, and 600 leds went down the drain... I bought new 100 leds with 2801 today. hope this should work smoothly. Thank you all for your great help. you saved me a lot of time on keep tring forever to get the 2811 to work.

Thanks

:)

I don’t think I would give up on those 600 LED’s quite yet. I don’t think this is an impossible task by any stretch. First let me give the caveat that I’m not any good at AVR assembly so I might be off base here.

The english data sheet varies from the chinese one google finds for the values of T1H and T1L (1.2u/1.3u versus 2.0u/0.5u). In either case it’s a total of 2.5u for each bit. This works out to exactly 40 clock cycles (2500ns / 62.5ns) on the Arduino. The +/-150ns tolerance means that you can be over two clock cycles early or late for each transition. I don’t think you can expect to write the loop in C++ and have the timing work out. But I think if somebody was reasonably proficient at assembly they could write a loop to manage this. The actual work to be done per bit is just two OUT instructions at 1 cycle each. That leaves 38 cycles for managing the loop itself. That should be plenty. You could unroll the inner loop over individual bits and inline that if you wanted. That gives you something on the order of 304 clock cycles to manage your loop over the bytes of data you want to output. That’s tons of time. You can use SBRC/SBRS instructions to control the falling clock timing. Those instructions are nice because the timing is identical whether the condition matches or not.

The 2801’s are very easy to work with though. I’ve got 350 of them up on my house right now as christmas lights. Let me know if you have any problems controlling them. I’ve got a hacked up version of shiftOut which is significantly faster than the stock one. You could also try the FastSPI library if you want to use SPI to drive them. The last batch I bought didn’t work with FastSPI though and I didn’t take the time to figure out why. I’m driving mine as four separate strands, so a single SPI line wasn’t going to work for me anyway.

The fastspi library has code for the TM1809 LED driver which uses a clockless data line as well. Two clock cycles is well within the precision possible on an arduino or PIC if you disable interrupts for the duration of the write. The fastspi library simply defines two specific counts of nop instructions to insert into each loop to make the data sending work out right.

As stated several times a higher MHz processor may do the trick. Running at 80MHz a Uono32 could work and is likely less expensive than tossing the LED strips:

http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,892,893&Prod=CHIPKIT-UNO32

are using this library?

Two clock cycles is well within the precision possible on an arduino or PIC

No it is not. Write the code and see.

Yes you can output something in 1 clock cycle, then you have to fetch the next byte, check if you have outputted all the data and loop back if not all in the next clock cycle?