SuperCap - solar + charging

Hi

I mention @Wawa due to his tread:

My system is based on ESP32WROOM module + lora + sensors.

I plan to use superC, and I have ordered 6 pcs 5.5V 10F from farnell (5 eur/each) (1 pcs pr system).
https://no.farnell.com/abracon/adcm-s05r5sa106rb/supercapacitor-edlc-10f-5-5v-radial/dp/4285286

My reason is that system is outdoor running 365 days and it can be as cold as -20 deg C, then a LiPo will not work.

Can I get some input to my charging circuit, and in general using superC in project:
Solar gives 6V max.

image

IC datasheet: here

M

With proper use of deep sleep modes and sensible power budgeting, 1F is more than enough for overnight, as this fun tutorial demonstrates. No boost converter (which don't work well with PV cells) or charger IC is required.

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Hi

that was a good read.

Here I live it is light 5 h/day 24.12, and not bright, my system runs 24/7 that's why I chose to use 5F per system.

My system goes up to 200mA when sending a LoRa message, sleep is 8uA, I switch of all sensors with mosfets.

Small value supercaps designed for memory retention can have a high internal resistance.
Look at the datasheets if it's able to deliver that current.
Leo..

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I should work, with that IC or a normal boost to 5V, and an LDO like the MCP1700 to 3.3V, and deepsleep. Add a bulk capacitor in the ESP side, like 100uF, for the short current peaks.

You can also monitor the supercap voltage and increase the sleep time when it's below a threshold. Or take the samples and store them in RTC memory, but send with less frequency.

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Thanks for helping me! (again:)

I have no experience with SuperC, chat gpt gives this answer for charging
use 5.5V CC 1A
cap 5.5V 10F
=> gives 55 sec.

Is this correct?

What about charging curve, like for batteries is that not necessary, I plan to use BQ25173DSGR?

M

Hi, yes this is my plan, like
I have 3 variables to play with, outside temp (can't charge LiPo if cold), BatV, SuperCV

Something like this, and many more

if (superC low and LiPo low and below 5 degC), (sleep 18h, only charge SuerC)

I also switch off 5V rail, and 3,3V rail, except MCU, then uses 8uA in sleep mode.
PCB in v 0,9

I'm not an expert in reading this datasheets, but it seems to deliver more than 200mA
And if uses all 42mWh (esr 0,23 ohm) it can run 2 sek 200mA 74 times, enough for me.

ESR is the internal resistance of the cap.
Simply use Ohm's law to calculate voltage drop.
The 1F cap with an ESR of 0.4 Ohm will internally drop 0.4 x 0.4A = 0.16volt at 400mA.

I think I told you about leakage current of supercaps in another thread.
The larger your cap, the higher the leakage you have to deal with (larger solar panel).
The closer to 5.5volt, the higher the leakage is.
Leakage during charging can be much higher, for a while.
Leo..

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Quite surprisingly for chatGPT, that is correct.

The defining equation for capacitance is
Q=CV
Taking the time derivative
dQ/dt = i = C dV/dt
or
dt = C dV/i

In the case C = 10F, dV = 5.5V and i = 1A, dt = 55 sec.

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I like to test the superCap, but I'm not sure if I can connect it to power supply 5.5, my uncertainty is based on need for BMS for LiIon/LiPo.

When reading @Wawa Super cap test the SuperC is chared directly from arduino pins, and there is no charge curve, only on /off /float to max/min.

So I may try to chare from power supply, setting CC to 200mA, agree?

M

You could also consider sodium batteries. They work below -10c.

Regarding the supercaps, with 10F you have for 2 or 3 days at least of power, if you wakeup the MCU once per hours or so.
And when there is strong light the supercap will charge in a couple of minutes. With weak light or covered, it takes longer but not a lot.

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@stonemk
I have planned to use SuperC, due to temp down to -20, and "endless" recharging cycles. Price is also good, only 5 EUR/pcs.

My system, in winter time, only need to send values each 4-6 h, mainly need bee hive temp and weight.

@Wawa
I have done some thinking about the superCap test, and I plan to build it, (not shure if I have an Uno, must check.

I have 5.5V superC.
Also tried to understand your spoken schematic.

Here is my humble try to understand it:

Arduino Uno
12x 330 ohm from pin 2-13 to a star point
330 ohm from A0 to star point
6k8 between Aref pin and 3.3volt pin, to create a 2.7volt Aref, ! measure it !
=> NB if 5V cap use const float Aref = 5.0;, and no resistor
1N4004 diode (protection) between star point and 5volt, cathode (ring) to 5volt
supercap connected to star point (+) and two ground pins (-)

               +5V
                |
               [D] (1N4004 diode)
                |
            (Star Point) -----+------+------+--...--+------ Pin 2
                |   |         |      |      |       |
             [330]  SuperC  [330]  [330]  [330]    [330]
                |   |         |      |      |       |
               A0   GND/GND  Pin 13 Pin 12 Pin 11  Pin 3 ... Pin 2
                              

                              
               +3.3V        (if SuperC 5V then + 5.0V      
                 |                    |    
                [R] (6k8)           (Aref)
                 |             
               (Aref)

Consider also the use of a proper energy harvester circuit ( they are also more expensive tough ).
It will come handy when your circuit will 'run out of juice': when the ( solar ) power is available again the microcontroller could be unable to reset and start normally due to limited/unstable power available.
This case could be handled correctly even by the brown-out circuitry of the microcontroller, but better verify in advance ( and the energy harvester will deal correctly with these cases ).
The energy harvester will also help you reduce these cases as it countains an mppt circuit that help extract the 'maximum available power' from your solar panel, and they are able to start charging the supercap even with super low input voltages ( yes I know in these conditions the power extracted is very low, but what surprise me is that they work )

Thanks for help!

I'm not 100% if I understnad this, here is my superCap charger I plan to implement:

image

Is this a harvester?

datasheet:

No, the bq25173 is simply a charger, you set charging current and maximum output voltage ( it is intended to be used with an adequate input power, so don't know if this will handle correctly the limited and varying power available from a solar cell, but it could do well nonetheless ).
You can find several ( every manufacturer has some in ther product line ):

  • stm
  • analog device
  • texas
  • even dfrobot has one ( I received an email this morning ) it is quite interesting as it does not need any external componet, for a standard usage ( but its datasheet is quite poor of informations )
    ...

I have done a charge test of a superCap on a sunny day, solar directly to superCap

A lot is done the first 11,5 minutes.

No Name china superCap 5,5V 10F and
no name china solar max 6V, max ~105 mA

NB mA is divided by 10 to get a more reading friendly graph.

image

Hi.
The ESR is 0.08 ohm, load from system is 200mA

V=0,2A * 0,08 ohm = 0,016V

P=(0,2A)^2 * 0,08 ohm = 0,0032 W

A 5.5V supercap won't last long if you insist on charging it to 6V. Manufacturer ratings are intended to be taken seriously.

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