problem with brushless motors, with the controlers

Forum 2005-2010 (read only) Software Troubleshooting
1

hi!

i am using brushless motors with the arduino card,
well, with the brushless controller actually

the thing is i have 4 controllers and 4 motors.

2 of them work properly, they do what i tell them with the code
the third one has a weird problem, at first, when i conect it, it "works" for a few minutes, well it just turns full speed, without responding to the code, i can even unplug the conections between the card and the controller, the motor keeps turning :o
and then, it stops, if i unplug the motor from the controller, then it won't start again. and the beeping sound the motor makes when it doesn't receive any signal is a bit faster than usual, and even if i send something to the controller, it keeps beeping. do you have any ideas of what is the problem?

the last controller had a problem, i was testing the 4 motors at the same time, only one was working, and one of the one that didn't worked blew up, with a big spark. now it just doesn't work :frowning:
there is a burned component so i think it's dead now
any idea why it could have blown up? :-?

i hope you can give me answers soon

thanks =)

2

Tell us more about the controllers, the motors and what you are trying to do with them.

Are the controllers from the RC hobby? Those are the ones I am most familiar with as far as interfacing with the Arduino, since the behave just like servos.

Can you swap motors and controllers? Take the set that is behaving poorly and put it on the pins where the motor and controller are behaving properly, and vice versa. Or even write a chunk of code to just run one motor, and test all of your motor/controllers for proper behavior.

3

alright, well, i baught combos of motors and controllers on robotshop, each motor works with each controller, so it's really the controllers the problem.

i don't understand what you mean by controllers from the RC hobby, but i control them just like servo.

4

RC is Radio Control.
There are many Electronic Speed Controls (ESC) that are marketed for use in Radio Control craft.

You say that each motor works with each controller. Did you test them? Each motor and each controller worked? Tell us more about that testing.

I am trying to gather enough info to help diagnose your problem. Knowing that the motor and controller worked once helps. Then we start looking at was was different when one motor ran full throttle, and one did not spin a all, with the controller failing (with sparks!).

5

Yes, specific details on controller/motor is required. Many speed controllers have specific starting requirements so that the motor doesn't start up spinning on first powering up or transmission starting. One I had made you command mid trottle or higher first and then go to 0% trottle command before it would 'arm' the motor and allow it to start. So any links to documentation on your equipment might help.

Lefty

6

well, i did test each motor with each controller and they all work the same

now if i test the controller that makes the motor turn full speed, it does the same thing with any motors, and the working controllers actually work with all motors, so the problem is really from the controller

the motors are Brusless B2025-15L

7

I am going to do a little more digging for information. :slight_smile:
You say B2025-15L
Is this the same motor?

If not, can you provide manufacturer information on your motor?

Do you have manufacturer and model information on the controller?
What are you using for a power supply? How many volts?
What type of load are you putting on the motors? Do you have wheels attached? Propellers? Gear Boxes?

The above questions are needed for best troubleshooting. Some brushless motors pull a lot of current. They pull more current if they are used with too much load.

I use a lot of brushless motors and controllers. Current draw is a big concern.

On to your testing:
You say that now, all motors run full throttle when connected to the suspect controller. Is that controller hooked up to the same signal for each? If so, you might be sending the controller a signal for full throttle. Can you (or have you) tried swapping where controllers are plugged in, so that the pins sending signals to the properly behaving controllers can be used with the suspect controller?

8

i think it is that motor, i have no info on the controller sorry,
i use lipo batteries i have two of 11.1V 3S 2200mAh and 30C i think

so, i plug two motors (well controllers) with each batteries, and usualy i link the two bateries together.

the motors are pulling propelers, to fly, it is said it can pull up to 850g

the thing, is when it blew up, the motor wasn't even turning, i was trying to test all 4 motors with the arduino card, each in a different pwm pin, then when i tested it, only one of them turned on, the 3 others wouldn't start, so i tried it several times changing the code to see why they wouldn't turn, and sudenly, while one one of them was turning, the other blew up :-?

9

It would really be helpful to have information on the controllers. Did you buy them online? Have a link?
Can you post photos? (both sides)

You say that you hook both packs together. Did you hook them in series or parallel? Series would make a 22.2v pack, and parallel would make a 11.1v pack.

What kind of prop do you have on? That motor is a very high RMP motor designed for ducted fans and gear reduction drives. If you have too large of a prop, then the motors will pull a lot more current and that can quickly smoke the controllers.

Are you using the servo library to talk to the controllers?
Do you have access to RC servos? They can be plugged in instead of the controllers/motors. This will give you a visual indication of successful throttle commands, without risking your motors and controllers.

What is your intended application? 4 props could be a quad copter. Is that what you are looking to do? This is less to troubleshoot the problems and more to satisfy my own curiosity, as well as lead to other advice and suggestions.

10

i'll get photos soon, right now a friend of mine has them (not doing this alone :slight_smile: )

so, i hook them in parallel so it's 11.1v

the propelers are quite big acutally they are 11*4.7 (5.4:1)
i tried smaller ones, but they bend, and when the motor get's to fast, the bend so much they loose all propelling (don't know the name, i'm french, well the just loose the push they have on the air, so the motor accelerates really fast, then the do weird stuff, the motor keeps accelerating deccelerating but the propelers don't push any air)

but it still works with the big propeler, and they did'nt pull too much current yet as the controller that blew up wasn't making the motor turn, i'll try to get a photo of it so you can see what component burned.

i control them with the servo library,

ad the intended aplication is a quad copter =)

11

5.4:1
Does this mean that you have a gear box on each reducing the drive by a ratio of 5.4 to 1? If so, then much of my concern here is reduced. This motor is simply not designed to turn a large prop directly. A small ducted fan yes. 2.5" ducted fan. Your large prop, even with the low pitch, would cook things if they were put on the motors in a direct drive configuration.

Parallel 11.1 - Good, that keeps the voltage in the range that the motor (and presumably the controller) expects.

I purchased a watt meter for my motor tests. This is very useful in tweaking a power system. It tells me how much current a motor is pulling with a particular prop. If the current is too high, then you need to go with a smaller prop. Too low and you can try a bigger prop. But without technical information on your ESCs, this would be all guesswork. If you know that your ESC can safely handle 10 amps, then you can measure and make sure that it stays under 10 amps at full throttle.

When you get pictures, I am interested in the burn components. But I am also interested in detailed shots of the undamaged ESCs to see if I can identify them.

Don't worry about your use of the English language. It is better than many who were born into it! But I think the word you are looking for is 'thrust'. The smaller propellers are likely thin. They flex under excessive load and lose their thrust.
Also, a propeller attached facing the wrong direction also produces very little thrust, so you might want to double check.

If you have access to RC servos, it would still be valuable to hook them up rather than the ESCs. This would confirm that all 4 output signals are working properly.

Is your aircraft going to be autonomous or radio controlled? If RC, then you can hook the ESC directly to the receiver to test the ESC and motor with the RC receiver and transmitter.

It is certainly still possible that you have a bad controller. But I would want to perform tests on distinct units.

I do not know that your board is sending out 4 proper servo signals.
Connecting RC servos would perform this test. If all 4 servos move properly in response to your board sending various throttle commands, then we would know your board is behaving properly.

I do not know that all 4 motors and the 3 remaining ESCs behave properly.
Connecting the ESCs and motors to a receiver to confirm that they respond properly at all throttle levels would let us know they are behaving properly.

As a side note, I also have 4 motors 4 ESCs and props for this kind of experiment. 4 inputs from the RC receiver, some inputs from gyros and a little bit of software and I should be good to go!
It is really that 'little bit of software' that I am looking forward to.

12

5.4:1 this was with the propeller description, might be french stuffs so you might not understand, neither do i :-/

also the motors aren't directy conected to the propeller, the small wheel from the motor is next to a bigger one so it turns slower, but i don't think the problem comes from the motors pull to much current

i'll get the pictures tomorow

so, i've tested the signals from the board, they all work nicely and all, so i really think the problem comes from the controller :frowning:

and the aircraft is going to be completely autonomous,
but i've tested all motors and all with RC, and they all work this way

"As a side note, I also have 4 motors 4 ESCs and props for this kind of experiment. 4 inputs from the RC receiver, some inputs from gyros and a little bit of software and I should be good to go!
It is really that 'little bit of software' that I am looking forward to."

you need the code i use to control the motors?

thanks for the help =)

13

Is your setup like this?
http://www.hepsiparis.com/arttech-reduksiyonlu-brushless-inr-motor-b202515l-111v,pid34473
It even specifies the 11x4.7 prop, so that improves my confidence on your selection.

If that is your setup, then I bet that there are 54 teeth on the larger gear, and 10 teeth on the pinion gear, resulting in a 5.4 to 1 ratio.

There is a good chance that the problem does reside with the controller. But I still want to check other aspects of the situation.

You mentioned that you tested the signals. How did you do that?

No, don't need code just yet. That is a future project that is backed up behind a zillion other projects. One of those projects is my hexapod. I think I have blisters from putting is so many tiny screws.

Autonomous - what will be the purpose? What will be the control?

My purpose with the quad copter is just to see if I can make one. I have several helicopters and planes, and this looked cool. Do you have left and right blades? Most quads I have seen have 2 blades that spin clockwise, and 2 that spin counterclockwise.
This supports yaw control with just changes in relative speed of the 2 sets of props. (at least as I understand)

14

alright that's exactly the motors i have =)

i've teste signals with an oscilloscope, and they all look the same

for the purpose, it's a school thing i have to do, well we have to make some project stuffs and we decided to do that

so for now the purpose is just that it takes off, finds something and lands next to it
but later we will just do what we want with it, like to have fun and see what we can do.

and we do have clockwise and conter clockwise spining blades so it doesn't turn on itself :sunglasses:

so here is the controller:
front:

back:

there was also one controller like that when i baught the 4 of them:
front:

back:

here is the broken one, we can see the burnt component up left, it's half orange half brown, next to the black square:

15

Some people say I am too bold. They say that anyone with gifts like mine that SO overshadow mere mortals should not flaunt these super human abilities.
But I cannot do that. I have these skillz, these incredible powers of observation, and I cannot hide them.

I am going to go way out on a limb and guess that these controllers are actually manufactured by (drumroll) Art-Tech!

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Your pictures do provide the identification information I was looking for. Art Tech 20 amp speed control in the first picture. I would have expected that you would have 4 identical ESCs, but the third picture shows an Art Tech 18 amp speed control. Is it just me, or does that picture make the ESC look warped?
And Picture 4, presumably the back of the ESC in picture 3, shows more disturbing detail. Did those components melt the shrink wrap covering? Or is that just a cut in the plastic shrink wrap?

On the burnt out ESC in picture 5, I do not know what that component is.

If you can identify it, and if you can find a replacement piece, and if you are good at surface mount soldering, then you might attempt a repair. But I am afraid that you would just experience the same failure again. I suspect that some other failure lead to that problem.

The good news is that brushless ESCs are available all over. TowerHobbies.com has one for $25

For my craft, the flying part is what I am after. You will be locating an object and navigating to it. Much more aggressive of a project. What will the object be? How will you detect it?