two water pump project for newbie

i’m very new to arduino and have almost no electronic knowledge …
i can just follow those guide and demo on wiring

I have:

  1. UNO broad
  2. two water pump (3.3V-6V, 1.8A)
  3. some switches and buttons

I would like to do:

  • Switch on & off two water pumps by a button without computer (no USB connected)

Question:
a) the pump seller said the pump has to work with a motor shield (I can get a L298N or L298P), is it necessary OR enough for powering that two water pumps?
b) What about the power? Would it be OK if only attach a 9V battery to the UNO?
c) I found a reference diagram (attached), i don’t understand about the relay breakout part (relay = motor shield?)
d) btw, normal water pump is one way, right? (not like motor when change the +/-?)

I can handle the programming part.
Appreciated if someone can guide me with a diagram on wiring

I... there a lot of thinks to see..

  1. your shield is acttualy working as a Relay. you can use it or not , but you need to use a relay becouse how you know AFTER READING A LOT OF ARDUINO , this one work with just 5V for each pin and not more of 40 or 20 mA ( I dont remmember to much that but you can see that in www.arduino.cc )
  2. you will discharge your battery in lees that one hour. Arduino is not do it to work with a little of energy, acttually is a lot! so use maybe something to charge your battery. I use a Solar panel for the same.
  3. keep reading... all that is in internet, you just need to read more.

a) the pump seller said the pump has to work with a motor shield (I can get a L298N or L298P), is it necessary OR enough for powering that two water pumps?

There is no obligation to use a motor shield. All you need do is ensure the output current of the pin on the Arduino is not greater than the maximum specified. The ability of the shields you quote depends on the power rating. In the picture you show, Arduino isn't driving a motor, it is driving a relay. If the coil current is within spec, it will be fine.

b) What about the power? Would it be OK if only attach a 9V battery to the UNO?

If you mean the little rectagular 9v, probably not. They are made to deliver volts, not power and really aren't any good for powering anything. A decent pack of 6xAAs might work quite nicely, depending on how long you want to run it, but could cost more than a wall wart.

c) I found a reference diagram (attached), i don't understand about the relay breakout part (relay = motor shield?)

The relay is doing what a motor shield might do. I imagine some motor shields have relays on them.

d) btw, normal water pump is one way, right? (not like motor when change the +/-?)

No, it depends on the motor. The pump needs to go one way to work but, if you wire it the wrong way, it might run backwards and not work. The best thing to do is follow instructions.

[/quote]

camilochiang:
I... there a lot of thinks to see..

  1. your shield is acttualy working as a Relay. you can use it or not , but you need to use a relay becouse how you know AFTER READING A LOT OF ARDUINO , this one work with just 5V for each pin and not more of 40 or 20 mA ( I dont remmember to much that but you can see that in www.arduino.cc )
  2. you will discharge your battery in lees that one hour. Arduino is not do it to work with a little of energy, acttually is a lot! so use maybe something to charge your battery. I use a Solar panel for the same.
  3. keep reading... all that is in internet, you just need to read more.

thx for quick reply

  1. L298N or L298P both OK? I found a L298P with 5V-12V and Two 2A/way (max. 4A in total), good enough for two mentioned water pump?
  2. if i connected the UNO with USB to computer, i had to add extra 12V PSU to the pumps?

yashiharu:
I would like to do:

  • Switch on & off two water pumps by a button without computer (no USB connected)

It seems to me that you could achieve this very simply by using the switches directly to turn the pumps on and off - what makes you think there is any need to involve a microcontroller?

I see that you dont know how arduino works.

  1. You can just plug your arduino to your PC with 5v per USB. so you will not win extra V if you pluged in your Pc.
  2. your pC will give energy to your Arduino, but not to your Motors or Pumps
  3. What you have to do is give enought energy to yours Relay so if each pump is working with 12 V-0,5A put a 12 V transformer or battery with more that 1 A. And that will be connect it to your relay, for one side , and for the other side you must connect your Arduino, to activate this last one.
  4. Yes, your Relay is Enougth for this case.

Good luck!

PeterH:

yashiharu:
I would like to do:

  • Switch on & off two water pumps by a button without computer (no USB connected)

It seems to me that you could achieve this very simply by using the switches directly to turn the pumps on and off - what makes you think there is any need to involve a microcontroller?

it's has to run automatically as an installation

camilochiang:
I see that you dont know how arduino works.

  1. You can just plug your arduino to your PC with 5v per USB. so you will not win extra V if you pluged in your Pc.
  2. your pC will give energy to your Arduino, but not to your Motors or Pumps
  3. What you have to do is give enought energy to yours Relay so if each pump is working with 12 V-0,5A put a 12 V transformer or battery with more that 1 A. And that will be connect it to your relay, for one side , and for the other side you must connect your Arduino, to activate this last one.
  4. Yes, your Relay is Enougth for this case.

Good luck!

Yea, try to follow others work to learn.

  1. ok.
  2. ok. (but i've follow some tutorial on the servo motor with no extra power ... you mean 5V is the limit, and my case this time is over 10V, so need extra power?)
  3. got it!
  4. I just bought a motor shield:
    L298P
    input 3V-24V (recommend 5V-12V)
    max 2A (recommend 1A)
    standalone powered

thx

yashiharu:

PeterH:

yashiharu:
I would like to do:

  • Switch on & off two water pumps by a button without computer (no USB connected)

It seems to me that you could achieve this very simply by using the switches directly to turn the pumps on and off - what makes you think there is any need to involve a microcontroller?

it's has to run automatically as an installation

I don't know what you mean by 'run automatically' i.e. what it needs to do when it's running. Your original description was very simple:

I would like to do:

  • Switch on & off two water pumps by a button without computer (no USB connected)

If that's accurate and you just want to have the pumps turn on and off by a button, the Arduino is redundant.

PeterH:

yashiharu:

PeterH:

yashiharu:
I would like to do:

  • Switch on & off two water pumps by a button without computer (no USB connected)

It seems to me that you could achieve this very simply by using the switches directly to turn the pumps on and off - what makes you think there is any need to involve a microcontroller?

it's has to run automatically as an installation

I don't know what you mean by 'run automatically' i.e. what it needs to do when it's running. Your original description was very simple:

I would like to do:

  • Switch on & off two water pumps by a button without computer (no USB connected)

If that's accurate and you just want to have the pumps turn on and off by a button, the Arduino is redundant.

it's part of the whole installation
there will be a processing program running on the other hand

to run the pumps with speed control, you will be required motor shield, or create your own circuit.

to turn pumps on and off with no speed control, you can use motor shield, or a relay or create your own circuit with a transistor or mosfet.

dave-in-nj:
to run the pumps with speed control, you will be required motor shield, or create your own circuit.

to turn pumps on and off with no speed control, you can use motor shield, or a relay or create your own circuit with a transistor or mosfet.

i just bought some stuff, and problem found:

  • motor shield: input 5v-12v (max. 24v) 2A; output 12v 1A
  • water pump(RS-360SH): 3.3v - 6v 1.8A

The seller just told me:
do not run both two water pumps together!
do not run the water pumps for long!

:fearful:
What could i do to make 2 pumps working together?
Please advise :frowning:

yashiharu:
i just bought some stuff, and problem found:

  • motor shield: input 5v-12v (max. 24v) 2A; output 12v 1A
  • water pump(RS-360SH): 3.3v - 6v 1.8A

The seller just told me:
do not run both two water pumps together!
do not run the water pumps for long!

:fearful:
What could i do to make 2 pumps working together?
Please advise :frowning:

Use two motor shields, one for each pump. You can improve the situation much further by 'paralleling' the outputs on each shield and use both channels to drive one pump. That give you 4A worth of drive which is lots more headroom.

In this doc see page 7/13 "Figure 7 : For higher currents, outputs can be paralleled. Take care to parallel channel 1 with channel 4 and channel 2 with channel 3"

jbarchuk:

yashiharu:
i just bought some stuff, and problem found:

  • motor shield: input 5v-12v (max. 24v) 2A; output 12v 1A
  • water pump(RS-360SH): 3.3v - 6v 1.8A

The seller just told me:
do not run both two water pumps together!
do not run the water pumps for long!

:fearful:
What could i do to make 2 pumps working together?
Please advise :frowning:

Use two motor shields, one for each pump. You can improve the situation much further by 'paralleling' the outputs on each shield and use both channels to drive one pump. That give you 4A worth of drive which is lots more headroom.

In this doc see page 7/13 "Figure 7 : For higher currents, outputs can be paralleled. Take care to parallel channel 1 with channel 4 and channel 2 with channel 3"

http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/CD00000240.pdf

should i go for a relay module (24v 10A)?
it seems easier & better, even for future study ...

yashiharu:
should i go for a relay module (24v 10A)?
it seems easier & better, even for future study ...

Ahhh rats what you asked just reminded me that what I wrote was -NOT- exactly straightforward-correct. I said 'two shields' because for a newbie Arduino is meant to be as plug-n-play as possible. But, you can't -simply- stack two motor shields. You'd need to bend out the address pins of the -top- shield, and patch those pin over to other address pins on the main board.

Relay board, sure , that's 100% appropriate too. Solid state such as the 298 is faster and quieter. For a pump, speed is not an issue. You don't need to go as far as 10A though, 100% headroom is perfectly OK.

jbarchuk:

yashiharu:
should i go for a relay module (24v 10A)?
it seems easier & better, even for future study …

Ahhh rats what you asked just reminded me that what I wrote was -NOT- exactly straightforward-correct. I said ‘two shields’ because for a newbie Arduino is meant to be as plug-n-play as possible. But, you can’t -simply- stack two motor shields. You’d need to bend out the address pins of the -top- shield, and patch those pin over to other address pins on the main board.

Relay board, sure , that’s 100% appropriate too. Solid state such as the 298 is faster and quieter. For a pump, speed is not an issue. You don’t need to go as far as 10A though, 100% headroom is perfectly OK.

so, i should go for the following environment set for future?
AC <—> PSU( 3-15v 10A) <—> 8 channel relay <—> UNO(usb powered)

then i can play almost whatever i want in SAFE?

yashiharu:
so, i should go for the following environment set for future?
AC <—> PSU( 3-15v 10A) <—> 8 channel relay <—> UNO(usb powered)
then i can play almost whatever i want in SAFE?

I’ve seen those 8ch relay boards they look very nice.

However if you have the potential to go that far you need more PSU to carry it, -or- PAY RAPT ATTENTION to the limits.

2A capacity per relay
x8 = 16A
x50% safety margin = 24A

You don’t need 24A unless you intend to go that far, with all loads on at the same time.

A 10A PSU never run at more than let’s say 80% 8A means you can never turn on more than 4 relays @2A each at the same time.

If you don’t need them to all be on at once, and you pay careful attention i software to NEVER turn on more than 4 at once, then you’re fine.

In addition to a fuse on each pump I’d also add a fuse to the power output of the PSU, because if the software fails to keep the load down, the PSU will make it’s best effort to deliver what it’s asked for. If it’s not fused or circuit breakered to protect itself then something will eventually overload and burn out (or catch fire.)

I’m not entirely sure of the -timing- aspects of this kind of power management, through relays, with inductive load. Relays take ‘x’ amount of time to disconnect power, (coil de-energises and magnet pulls contact open.) The speed of one relay disconnecting while another relay makes connection might have an -overlap-, that causes a brief but definitely measurable overdraw on the PS. Inductive loads typically draw a lot more power during startup, which if there is an overlap time would be in that time span. It might be insignificantly brief, or over time it might be significant to the lifespan of the PSU. Only an Engineer can read the specs the right way to determine what other margins might be needed to be built into the timing. Or an Engineer would specify what higher capacity PSU is required to allow for such overlaps and startup power surges.

jbarchuk:

yashiharu:
so, i should go for the following environment set for future?
AC <—> PSU( 3-15v 10A) <—> 8 channel relay <—> UNO(usb powered)
then i can play almost whatever i want in SAFE?

I’ve seen those 8ch relay boards they look very nice.

However if you have the potential to go that far you need more PSU to carry it, -or- PAY RAPT ATTENTION to the limits.

2A capacity per relay
x8 = 16A
x50% safety margin = 24A

You don’t need 24A unless you intend to go that far, with all loads on at the same time.

A 10A PSU never run at more than let’s say 80% 8A means you can never turn on more than 4 relays @2A each at the same time.

If you don’t need them to all be on at once, and you pay careful attention i software to NEVER turn on more than 4 at once, then you’re fine.

In addition to a fuse on each pump I’d also add a fuse to the power output of the PSU, because if the software fails to keep the load down, the PSU will make it’s best effort to deliver what it’s asked for. If it’s not fused or circuit breakered to protect itself then something will eventually overload and burn out (or catch fire.)

I’m not entirely sure of the -timing- aspects of this kind of power management, through relays, with inductive load. Relays take ‘x’ amount of time to disconnect power, (coil de-energises and magnet pulls contact open.) The speed of one relay disconnecting while another relay makes connection might have an -overlap-, that causes a brief but definitely measurable overdraw on the PS. Inductive loads typically draw a lot more power during startup, which if there is an overlap time would be in that time span. It might be insignificantly brief, or over time it might be significant to the lifespan of the PSU. Only an Engineer can read the specs the right way to determine what other margins might be needed to be built into the timing. Or an Engineer would specify what higher capacity PSU is required to allow for such overlaps and startup power surges.

very very good info $)
i got what you mean. thx

omg! program fail might happen …
may i know which kind of PSU you recommended with fuse?

yashiharu:
omg! program fail might happen ...

Yep there aren't that many but there are some situations where software can damage/destroy hardware.

may i know which kind of PSU you recommended with fuse?

I can't really recommend anything specific. For general benchtop use I have a repurposed PC power supply. To 'install'
something more permanently I have dozens of random generic wallwarts picked up over the years. But I don't commonly deal with higher power >2A projects so don't know what's best to pick. Yes a built-in fuse would be very nice or better yet a circuit breaker but that's a few $ more.

If I needed something I'd browse through ebay and look for a long-time reputable vendor. PS are THE most common electronic product in the WORLD. (Second is amplifiers.) There have to be -thousands- of PS vendors out there handling at least hundreds of manufacturers. Which means there can be a lot of garbage as well as quality stuff.

jbarchuk:

yashiharu:
omg! program fail might happen …

Yep there aren’t that many but there are some situations where software can damage/destroy hardware.

may i know which kind of PSU you recommended with fuse?

I can’t really recommend anything specific. For general benchtop use I have a repurposed PC power supply. To ‘install’
something more permanently I have dozens of random generic wallwarts picked up over the years. But I don’t commonly deal with higher power >2A projects so don’t know what’s best to pick. Yes a built-in fuse would be very nice or better yet a circuit breaker but that’s a few $ more.

If I needed something I’d browse through ebay and look for a long-time reputable vendor. PS are THE most common electronic product in the WORLD. (Second is amplifiers.) There have to be -thousands- of PS vendors out there handling at least hundreds of manufacturers. Which means there can be a lot of garbage as well as quality stuff.

i can buy the following NEW psu from here:
notebook type (fused, plastic case)
ATX 80+ psu (fused, metal case)
lighting thin psu (metal case)

which one is better and safer for newbie prevent from electric kill :sweat_smile: