UGV project with ebay components

Hello everyone,
I'm new in arduino projects, have some programming skills from university
As the topic subject says, I would like to build a UGV (tank like, with catepillar), something like this project

Already got Arduino Uno R3, RF cheap kit and L293 Hbridge.
I would like to control it with my playstation controller, not with wireless bluetooth controller, but connect another arduino to controller to be transmitter (using RF transmitter from eBay), but that is flexible. Maybe, a touchpad from laptop will be used...
Another arduino will be used as a reciever (using RF reciever from eBay) and controller for motors. There should probably be few LED as headlights. I've bought L293 h-bridge. For the begining there will be two motors and after awhile buy another two to speed things up :smiley:
Catepillar will be made from bicycle chain, chasis probably from steel plane (or something like that)

But, my main problem is a motor calculation. I've googled and searched on this forum, but, all I found is quadcoptercalc, xcoptercalc...
I know that I will need brushless motors and ESC, but I don't know which ones. Since it is my first amateur project, I would like to spend cca 20-25 $ for each motor. In my country I can't buy esc nor motors (so I'm told) so I'm destined to eBay. If you could help me picking, that would be great.

If there is any bad idea in my plan, please tell me so that I can change it in time.

Thanks in advance... :wink:

anyone? :~

antisha:
anyone? :~

Your project looks some what involved and complex. Which parts have you completed so far and which parts do you need help with? If your project is still in the "dream"' phase, you might want to start with a similar but less complex project.

You would save a huge amount of money up front if you started out with plain old brushed motors to begin with - electric models tend to have standard sized motors and if you're using one of these then it would be a relatively simple upgrade in future to go from NiMH + brushed motor up to LiPo + brushless motor. I think that would cut your initial expenditure by about a factor of ten, so you can defer the expensive parts until you have got all the hardware working and know the project is going to work well enough to justify all that expense.

Problem is changing motors in the future. Will it be possible to implement it in the project :~
I have some old CDroms, will it be able to drive this project?

Project is still in "dream mode", waiting for spring breaks to start (for about 15 days), and then construction begins...
hardware won't be enormous problem (so I think), my colleague is pretty good at welding.
My main problem is motors and battery. Maybe battery from scooter could be implemented?

How much KV motor (if I want to buy brushless) would I have to buy so that this project would succeed???

I have some old CDroms, will it be able to drive this project?

:astonished: :roll_eyes:

antisha:
I have some old CDroms, will it be able to drive this project?

Conceptually..... If the whole project weighs about as much as a CD, or you use enough gears & don't mind a velocity of about 1 metre/minute? :slight_smile:

Have you checked out diydrones.com?

antisha:
Problem is changing motors in the future. Will it be possible to implement it in the project :~

This is why I mentioned that electric motors tend to have a standard form factor.

Let's say that I have some money in the piggy bank $) and I wnt to invest in this project (it will probably be for my university project also)
which motor would you recommend? How much KV? Which ESC?
These are some suggestions:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emax-CF2822-1200KV-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-For-RC-Aircraft-Helicopter-Airplan-/200737168205?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles&hash=item2ebcde1b4d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RC-1100KV-Shaft-3-17mm-Outrunner-Brushless-Motor-17T-Gear-A2208-Free-Mounts-/290752102053?pt=US_Radio_Control_Control_Line&hash=item43b22cfea5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motor-Brushless-Outrunner-RC-Thrust-Plane-Heli-1200-KV-/200739215159?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles&hash=item2ebcfd5737

These are just some examples. and please with motor, recommend some ESC also :smiley:

Thanks for your reply

antisha:
These are just some examples. and please with motor, recommend some ESC also :smiley:

I'm trying to figure out exactly what it is you are trying to build?

I mean, your first post (and the title of this thread) seems to indicate some kind of UGV (Unmanned Ground Vehicle) with some kind of homebrew tank treads (btw - if this is your objective, forget about purchasing such treads if this project is going to be larger than a toy, unless you plan to budget at least $1000.00 USD for the treads alone).

You then go on to mention in another post wanting to use CD-ROM motors? Then go on to say you have friend who is a skilled welder? I mean, you -must- realize that a CD-ROM motor will -not- move anything made out of steel (well, any amount of steel that would require welding), right? Nor will any of the motors you posted - plus, all of those motors are meant to be used for R/C aircraft (airplanes, helicopters, multi-rotor copters) - not ground-based vehicles. While there do exist BLDC (brushless DC) motors and ESCs for ground-based vehicles, none of them are likely going to have the power needed to move something large enough that you are proposing to be made out of welded steel.

If you honestly wanted to go the route of using brushless motors (with reverse capability), to move something weighing in the range of 100-200 kg or so (?) - such motors (and the controllers, and the batteries) are going to cost you a -lot- of money; the only way around that (though you will still be spending a bunch of money) would be to "hack" a couple of automobile alternators to run them as BLDC motors (people have successfully done this, but it isn't easy - you have to be able to build your own high-current 3-phase controllers with hall-effect sensor feedback - and the fact that you are asking all of these other questions clearly indicates that you don't have the skills to accomplish this yet).

Your only other option for a machine this size would then be to use something like large brushed DC gear motors; at the "small" end of the scale would be automobile windshield-wiper and similar motors. At the larger end of the scale would be electric power-chair/mobility-chair/wheel-chair motors. Either way, you are still looking at an expensive robot needing specialized motor controllers and hefty batteries - none of this is inexpensive. Figure roughly around $2000.00 USD just to get a rolling chassis - that would be the metal frame (plus all the welding), the motors, the drive system (chains and sprockets, likely), the controller(s), and the batteries (multiple large 12V gel-cell lead-acid), plus a charging system. Most of that money will be in the batteries, controllers, and motors (though the motors - if you are lucky, can be found cheaply if you can shop surplus).

Whatever - we really don't know what your specs are, but everything you've said (UGV, tank-like, needs welding) points to something fairly large - weighing around 100-200 kg or so - perhaps about the size of a kid's ride-on toy. But this is just a guess based on what I have read here; you've posted other things that seem to indicate that this could be a much smaller machine - capable of being hand-carried by a single person. Which is it?

Lastly - I am still curious why you posted things (in contradiction with the post title and your first post) that seem to indicate you are wanting to build a UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle) and -not- a UGV? I mean, you posted questions regarding using CD-ROM motors and BLDC motors meant for small-scale R/C aircraft, both of which have been used in one form or another for small-scale UAV construction...?

...can you see how confusing this is?

All that said - if your goal is to create a "tank-like" UGV - perhaps these links can give you some ideas on how to accomplish such a machine:

http://www.rctankcombat.com/tanks/

http://www.rctankcombat.com/articles/track-systems/

Here is the motors used in the youtube video, cost US$19.99
Turnigy 500 H3126 Brushless outrunner 1300KV

Birdie 110A Brushless ESC (3A 5V)

I'm sorry if I confused you with my replies. All I want is to build toy scale (cca 35cm long, 20-30cm wide) RC tank with arduino as a brain, just like in video posted. Tank made on video is made of steel, that's why I mentioned welding. It will probably have some turret that will be also controlled with two servo motors (up-down, left-right). And very maybe,a CD rom ray that will be shot from turret or some sort of camera.
My main problem is movement of tank, and that's why I need your help. Are there any low cost brushless motors on ebay that could move cca 16kg toy scale tank? And what kind of ESC and battery should be used?

Would this motor be okay?
www.ebay.com/itm/170818614331?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Thank you for reply

Would this motor be okay?

You will probably need to gear it down to produce sufficient torque to move your bot.

Ok - first off, shame on me for not watching the video first; my apologies - based on how the initial frame looked (showing chain-link treads) - I made the bad assumption that the machine was larger than it really was. Mea Culpa.

antisha:
I'm sorry if I confused you with my replies. All I want is to build toy scale (cca 35cm long, 20-30cm wide) RC tank with arduino as a brain, just like in video posted.

Do you insist on building it from the ground up? You mention it would be your first "amateur" project - perhaps your potential for success would be better realized by using an available R/C tank chassis? There are more than a few out there (airsoft and/or paintball combat tanks) that can be had for relatively low cost (around $100.00). Some have controllable turrets and firing mechanisms, too.

However, they tend to be made out of plastic - mostly...

antisha:
Tank made on video is made of steel, that's why I mentioned welding.

Looking at that video, more than a bit of machining was done to build it; do you have those skills (or do you know someone who does)? This project also probably wouldn't be inexpensive (neither time nor money, at that). Expect to spend at least a few hundred dollars or more, plus a lot of time machining, fitting, welding, etc. Then working out any bugs or other issues.

Using a pre-built chassis, as mentioned, especially for a "first project" - will likely yield results more quickly with less frustration (being overly ambitious on first projects without having had success in smaller but similar ones can be a recipe for disaster).

Also - does it have to be made of steel? As the link I posted before shows, several people have managed to construct R/C tanks from plywood and other easier-to-work materials; you might also consider using aluminium extrusions (either the common stuff you can find at a big-box home improvement store, or more advanced stuff like t-slot - makerbeam, 80/20, etc). Aluminium is much easier to work with than steel, though it isn't as inexpensive. Combine it, though, with stuff like PVC or ABS sheeting, as well as HDPE or similar (ie - plastic cutting board material) - all of which is also easy to machine and work with using fairly common hand tools, you might find your success rate higher (again, depending on your experience - or ability to find experience - in working with steel).

antisha:
My main problem is movement of tank, and that's why I need your help. Are there any low cost brushless motors on ebay that could move cca 16kg toy scale tank? And what kind of ESC and battery should be used?

Finally - is there a reason you seem to insist on using brushless motors? I only ask because the use of such motor almost always means you'll have to build a custom gear system to bring the torque up to acceptable levels. Even in that video, the person had to build a simple gearbox - and by the end had to redo it for some reason (either the tank moved too fast, or he was burning out the ESCs, or something?).

It's easier to find brushed motors with integrated gear boxes - they're all over the place; what can be difficult (and/or expensive) is finding motor controllers (or ESCs) that will work with such motors; but they also exist if you are willing to look.

An alternative would be to figure out how to mount a brushless motor to a separate gearbox (AC motors with integrated gearboxes tend to be cheaper - for instance, the gearboxes for rotisseries can make nice high-torque drives, though coupling a shaft to them can be problematic).

There's no excitement when it's all bought. I'm planning to learn much from this project, arduino programming and also mechanics. Few friends are going to help me out with welding and mechanics.

zoomkat:

Would this motor be okay?

You will probably need to gear it down to produce sufficient torque to move your bot.

I've planning to buy this motor. It's said that this one has high torque. Speed for this project isn't necessary (as long it isn't 0,x km/h :slight_smile: )
When you said gear it down, that means it needs to have bigger second gear?

At first I saw tank and arduino and I was gonna say go hydraulic, but hydraulics a little big for something a foot or 2 across.
If you have the space you can probably buy a nice pair of brushed DC motors that put out about 1/4 to 1/3hp to move aroudn your 30-40lb steel tank for a few hundred dollars each. If you are willing though, a couple lengths of 80/20 for the framerails, then tig welding the rest of an aluminum chassis onto the unit, the thing would probably end up coming out light enough that you won't NEED a really really big motor.

Also in other news, those tracks in the video are way too wide. Every one of those little pivots is even more friction, and sadly they're a pretty bad design. You could probably get by making a 3 wide track like that and building trackplates onto them. The reduced friction would greatly boost performance for whatever size motor your using.

When you said gear it down, that means it needs to have bigger second gear?

It means that theres a small gear on the output shaft of the motor, and a larger mating gear that goes to your track drive (or another small gear if your having more then 1 step of reduction)
so say your output gear has 20 teeth on it, and it mates to a 40 tooth gear, that means you'll end up with half the RPM, but double the torque. a 20/60 would end up with 1/3rd the rpm and 3x the torque