double signal parallel triple switch (i'm new)

Hi guys i'm Alberto from Italy :slight_smile:
i've got a project but i don't know if it works with arduino so i'd like to have an help from knowledged people!!
all you have to know is that the two signals i want to switch in parallel in this project are signals coming from an electric guitar and 3 tube amps.
i mean my problem is that now i can easily switch my guitar input in 3 or more amps BUT some ambient effects like delays or reverbs or flangers or phasers etc are put in the fx loop..the fx loop is after the preamp section and before the power section SO i have those effects linked with 2 jacks to the head and i can only use those effects with that head or i have to unlink those effects from the head with my hands and link em to another head and so on.
instead i want to use those effects with other 2 heads so how can i?
the concept is that i want to switch at the same time the guitar input and the amps fx loop from amp 1 to amp2 or from 3 to 1 etc with only pushing a button but having the grounds separated.
i mean i can do it with a multiple switch but i don't like the idea to have an order like step 1 amp1, step 2 amp 2, step3amp3 and step3,step2,step1..i want something electronic so"amp1 for rythm, amp3 for lead,amp2 for clean", something that let me decide what amp using at the moment..
i'll put some attachments to explain as clear as possible my project!!
sorry for my bad english
Albi

IMG.pdf (711 KB)

There's bad english and then there's correct use of capital letters and paragraphs. You are doing quite well with the other punctuation, which is rare.

Do you know how switches are categorized? SPDT and so on? I don't have a good resource online (I learned it before the internet was popular) but there must be guides out there. You need to work out which type you need and then you can search for that specific configuration. There will be thousands of different types of switch available for what you want. Then you get to decide if you need a "toggle" switch (little lever sticking out) or a "rocker" switch (seesaw or teeter-totter) or maybe there's some other type you like.

Sorry for my bad English
Albi

No need to apologise, your English is far better than my Italian.

As you are important, you deserve to give yourself a capital "I".

MorganS:
There's bad english and then there's correct use of capital letters and paragraphs. You are doing quite well with the other punctuation, which is rare.

Do you know how switches are categorized? SPDT and so on? I don't have a good resource online (I learned it before the internet was popular) but there must be guides out there. You need to work out which type you need and then you can search for that specific configuration. There will be thousands of different types of switch available for what you want. Then you get to decide if you need a "toggle" switch (little lever sticking out) or a "rocker" switch (seesaw or teeter-totter) or maybe there's some other type you like.

thanks!
yep usually to make my distrtion pedals and similars I use spdt or dpdt or 3pdt switch!
the toggle switch or similars is exactly the way I want to avoid!
but don't mind for a sec the switches..my question is: is the correct way to use arduino?
I mean can I link 3 switches to arduino and after his simple programming, randomly switch between the amps?
thank you so much
ALBI

Switching analog signals is not what a digital microcontroller is good at. It can however control an external circuit or several circuits which do the actual switching.

So you have som simple switch or switches (pushbuttons or even just some sensor) which the Arduino via simple programming then translates to another set of digital signals which control the analog switches. The programming can take into consideration that some combinations are not allowed, that some must go through a short sequence (first this OFF, then this ON), and so on providing the intelligence.

There are several chips that do the analog signal switch on a digital input. Google that: "analog signal switch". You must match the voltage (and frequency) range of your instruments to what the chip can handle. the digital-controlling input has to switch at 5V (which is what the Arduino outputs).

I suggest you post subsidary questions in the General Electronics on detail question son these chips.

Can one use relays for these sorts of signals?

The way I see this being done is to uses a few switches or dials to indicate which combination of effects you want active and then have the Arduino set the appropriate relays.

I believe these sorts of controls are often done with foot buttons.

I'm sure I've seen these sorts of projects before. I'll add links if I can find the projects again.

BTW, Thanks for the improved capitalization. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks it's nice to use both upper and lowercase letters.

Hi guys i'm Alberto from Italy :slight_smile:
i've got a project but i don't know if it works with arduino so i'd like to have an help from knowledged people!!
all you have to know is that the two signals i want to switch in parallel in this project are signals coming from an electric guitar and 3 tube amps.
i mean my problem is that now i can easily switch my guitar input in 3 or more amps BUT some ambient effects like delays or reverbs or flangers or phasers etc are put in the fx loop..the fx loop is after the preamp section and before the power section SO i have those effects linked with 2 jacks to the head and i can only use those effects with that head or i have to unlink those effects from the head with my hands and link em to another head and so on.
instead i want to use those effects with other 2 heads so how can i?
the concept is that i want to switch at the same time the guitar input and the amps fx loop from amp 1 to amp2 or from 3 to 1 etc with only pushing a button but having the grounds separated.
i mean i can do it with a multiple switch but i don't like the idea to have an order like step 1 amp1, step 2 amp 2, step3amp3 and step3,step2,step1..i want something electronic so"amp1 for rythm, amp3 for lead,amp2 for clean", something that let me decide what amp using at the moment..
i'll put some attachments to explain as clear as possible my project!!
sorry for my bad english
Albi

IMG.pdf (711 KB)

I found one of the projects I had previously seen. It's called OpenStomp. It doesn't do what you're trying to do but maybe there's some useful information you can learn from it. It's open source so you can probably see what sorts of part were used. Here's a forum post about the project.

I think, what you are looking for, is called an "Analog Switch Multiplexer" Chip

The problem with analog multiplexers is their power supplies must span the full
signal voltage range or it will be clipped. For audio this could mean a +/-9V
split supply and an 18V tolerant analog switch chip, which isn't so great. I say this
because effects are (or were) often powered by 2 9V batteries in the days of old
high voltage opamps. If everything is 5V or so it means a much wider choice, but
you still have to cope with negative signal voltages...

Reed relays are perhaps a simpler approach and fairly low power to operate.

I can't quite comprehend all of that, but an Arduino can switch relays (a relay is simply an electrically controlled switch) or you can use analog switch ICs ([u]example[/u]).

So, it's really a matter of programming the right relay/analog switch sequences & combinations. If you've never programmed before, it's mostly going to be [u]if-statements[/u] in a loop.... If we are at step 2 and the button pressed, change the configuration to step 3....

As you probably know, It's OK to connect two inputs together (such as running a guitar into two amps), but you should NEVER connect two outputs together such as running two effect pedals into the same amp input. If you want to mix two or more signals, you need a mixer.

And as you probably also know, you should never connect the output of a device into it's own input (that creates feedback).

So, one of the tricky things is to make sure your software never makes an "illegal" connection. And, you might want to add some short (few millisecond) delays so the old connection "breaks" before the new connection is "made".

Any "floating" inputs & outputs should have a "permanent" resistor to hold them at ground. Otherwise, when you connect something you can get a "pop". For line-level signals, or for an "active" effects box, a resistance of around 10K is fine.

Regular electro-mechanical relays need a driver because the Arduino cannot put-out enough voltage & current to drive a relay coil. You can buy relay boards with multiple relays and the drivers built onto the board.

You can get DPDT (double-pole, doube-throw) or SPDT (single-pole, double-throw) relays, which can be wired as an A/B switch.

Most analog switches are "simple" on/off switches, but there's more than one switch in a package so they can be wired to operate as an A/B switch (or any other configuration).

P.S.
Take it one step at a time... For example, make something that switches between two amps, or two effects, and just make it switch ever 10 seconds or so with no user input. When that's working, add a button for user control. Then add one "feature" at a time, always testing & debugging before moving ahead.

Please do not cross-post. Threads merged.

You're all very smart and knowledged but I think we're going too far from the starting point!
I mean forget for a minute that is an audio signal we're talking about..i simply have 3 signals called A,B & C and they're isolated from each other ..I simply need a system that allows me to switch those three signals to three different outputs in the order i want..pressing button 1 I route abc to a'b'c'..pressing button 3 I route abc to a3b3c3..and so on..is like if I had a simply toggle switch but without have an order..for example if you do it with a toggle 3way switch to reach step 3 you're obliged to pass for step 2 and when you are in step 3 to reach back step 1 you have to pass for step 2..I guess that the best and easiest solution is to make Arduino run three relays! Am i right?
albi

No, we can't forget that it's audio. That is a critical piece of information which affects all possible answers.

Older amplifiers used to have a row of buttons for the different sources. Tape/phono/line or whatever. Pushing any button would cause the previously selected button to pop out. They are called "radio buttons" because even older car radios had this kind of system. It's very mechanical.

I'm sure you can still buy these new but a better source might be to pull apart an amplifier from the dump. Try your local charity store. They often have interesting stuff for $5. If you don't see what you need, ask to see the storeroom. They will have big piles of junk to look at.

You could probably do this without a microcontroller.

If there's not a switch with enough pole and throw combinations, you could use a multiple position switch to trigger relays to make the desired contacts.

The device for which you are looking is a 74HC4052. It switches each of two analog inputs to one of four analog outputs - or vice versa; that is one of four analog inputs for each of two analog outputs. The switches are "ganged" - the selection of four options applies together - it is a 2P4T switch.

You need to supply it with a fully regulated (and relatively noise-free) 5 V supply and a similarly regulated and smoothed minus 4 V supply, totalling 9 volts - no more. These voltages permit a signal of up to 8 V peak-to-peak, centred on ground. Your digital control signal is zero to 5 V which you can control with switches or microcontrollers or similar. The device itself uses very little power indeed unless the inputs are overloaded, so is quite suitable for battery power (two 4.5 V batteries.)

Other similar devices in this series are single pole, 8 way and four pole, two way. Any of these should be quite appropriate for electric guitar use.

You are treating all the signals as if they were equal You need to separate all the signals you are discussing by their voltage level parameters and their power parameters. You cannot discuss switching signals from amps as if you were talking about switching a 1V peak to peak LINE signal. The fact that they are amps implies that the voltage and power of the output is greater than the input.
Itemize ALL the signals you have in your drawing by categorizing them by voltage and power levels.
ie:
CLASS-A signals: 1V peak to peak LINE LEVEL
SOURCE (where they are switched FROM) DESTINATION (where they are switched TO)
A
B
C

Hopefully , everything below this line does not apply

CLASS-B signals XXV /yy Watts
SOURCE (where they are switched FROM) DESTINATION (where they are switched TO)
A
B
C
CLASS-C signals XY V/ XY Watts
SOURCE (where they are switched FROM) DESTINATION (where they are switched TO)
A
B
C

and so forth. '

You can't use an analog signal multiplexer for amplified signals. Also , switching amplified signals is bad for the amp and the speakers because it can result in sudden input to a speaker or sudden load to an amp.

I have no idea what the electrical specifications are for any of the signals you discuss and I doubt anyone else does but I think we can all agree that anything coming FROM an AMP is not going to be a 1V peak to peak LINE LEVEL signal.

You are talking about APPLES and ORANGES like it's all one big fruit salad. You need to post the electrical characteristics of each and every signal you talk about or you are wasting your (and our ) time.

In addition to posting the type (electrical specs) for the signals (unless they are ALL LINE LEVEL, in which case you should state that) you also need to redraw your drawing.
If they are all LINE LEVEL signals then an arduino can be used to control analog switch chips to route your signals. First you need to clarify whether or not all inputs and outputs in your post are in fact LINE LEVEL (1V pk-pk)

What's a "head" ? That doesn't sound like an audio mixing term. Where did you get that from ?

You may differ, but my interpretation of his problem is that he is switching line level signals between effects boxes.

It certainly was not particularly clear ...