Forum does not warn that it uses Cookies - is it breaking the law?

Isn't it a legal requirement for all websites to warn users if they use cookies and (presumably) not to store any cookies without the user's agreement.

When I delete all my Arduino cookies and access the site again it stores several cookies without any warning even when I don't log in.

...R

Am pretty sure its not a "global" legal requirement.

Also there are cookies and there are cookies.

Some gather more info than others and pass that along (HATE those ones) whilst some are just there as essentially markers to let the site know... OMG its him again but we better let him in and not send him through the logon routine.

Definitions do vary on cookies so maybe even if they are required to inform you, the type they use might be exempt.

Ballscrewbob:
Am pretty sure its not a "global" legal requirement.

No doubt that is true. But aren't they required to comply with local laws?

...R

There is a whole raft of legislation AFAIK that includes many "get of of jail free" options.
I do know some of those are related to the country of origin for the site.

So for instance country A does not require notification to be given and you are viewing a country A site from country B.

I know a few European countries have the requirement to notify as part of the "do not track"
But most of those wont let you visit a full site unless you say YES to the cookie.

Arduino site is mostly served from the US (possibly CDN) Amazon S3 servers so they may have quite a few get out of jail free cards.

You would have to dig the specific regs and agreements out and I hope you have plenty of bandwidth and spare reading time as I gather they make 'war and peace" look like a short story :wink:

Ballscrewbob:
You would have to dig the specific regs and agreements out and I hope you have plenty of bandwidth and spare reading time as I gather they make 'war and peace" look like a short story :wink:

I was rather hoping that someone from the Arduino team might take the trouble to tell us how they comply with the law.

...R

LOL you want your cake and eat it too

Robin2:
I was rather hoping that someone from the Arduino team might take the trouble to tell us how they comply with the law.

I seriously hope the website team here has better things to do than waste time on a law that addresses a non-issue, is effectively useless, and realistically pointless. It's also possible this misguided law may not be applicable to how cookies are used on this site...

Dirk

Thanks Dirk.

Nice to get a second opinion on “useless” :wink:

I don’t at all agree that it is a useless law.

I don’t like the idea that websites can clutter up my PC with stuff without getting my permission. Frankly I don’t think the regulation is tough enough. All it does is require the website to tell the user it uses cookies. IMHO it should explain what each cookie does and get permission for each one individually.

…R

Robin2:
I don’t at all agree that it is a useless law.

Double-check the first link I provided earlier.

Robin2:
I don’t like the idea that websites can clutter up my PC with stuff without getting my permission.

Nothing can be done on your PC without your permission. If you don’t want websites “cluttering it up”, don’t visit any. Plus, there are plugins for most browsers which block all cookies by default and ask you about each one which you can then allow.

This law is useless as it only applies to sites which do business in EU states (of which the UK is not going to be one soon), and is nearly impossible to enforce in any effective way. (IMO: It’s also one of those laws which keeps only the honest people honest.) Even if it could be enforced, there are a lot of ways to track your use of the Internet without using cookies. Effectively, all this law has done is cost a lot of people money (yes, even you as the costs incurred by business sites are being passed back to you). Even the EU has admitted that it leaves a lot to be desired (yep, you can google this one on your own).

Dirk

It was one of those decisions that helped Brussels become laughing stock of the EU like the "straight" banana and the "standardised" cabbage decisions.

This law is useless as it only applies to sites which do business in EU states

Stop thinking only USA.

In European Union the law obliges to warn when a site uses the cookies.
In other parts of the world this is also the case.

This law is useful and applicable.

I am waiting for Arduino to explain:

  • what files he writes on my PC ?
  • where it writes it ?
  • what is the content of these files ?
  • what is their utility ?

Firefox linux: ok but I have to clear all cookies even the non arduino.

Chromium PC_ linux and firefox_android and chrome_android:
I'm starting to get tired of searching everywhere on Chromium and Firefox where these damn files are.

@68tjs

Do a trace back to the servers but I think you will find they are probably located in a country NOT bound by those Euro rules.
Both Arduino.com and arduino.cc directly trace back to the USA. so saying stop thinking about the US is a moot point.

Results returned from whois.nic.cc:
Domain Name: ARDUINO.CC
Domain ID: 86874457
WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Updated Date: 2017-01-17T08:40:04Z
Creation Date: 2005-10-26T12:59:26Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2018-10-26T12:59:26Z
Sponsoring Registrar: GODADDY.COM, LLC
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 146
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Name Server: NS-1118.AWSDNS-11.ORG
Name Server: NS-1658.AWSDNS-15.CO.UK
Name Server: NS-281.AWSDNS-35.COM
Name Server: NS-846.AWSDNS-41.NET
DNSSEC: unsigned

Last update of WHOIS database: 2017-05-13T18:58:45Z <<<

arduino trace.jpg

EDIT… BTW I am in Canada like Dirk and am actually from the UK so don’t throw me in with the US !

I have enough tech savvy to understand the implications and limitations that have been give to you and Robin but fail to see why (given the evidence) it is still a concern.
So glad you don’t use the online editor you might have a fit when it asks to install a security certificate add extra drivers and ask to punch through your firewall :astonished:

68tjs:
Stop thinking only USA.

I'm not. ...which is actually one of this law's largest weaknesses. I'm in Canada participating in a website which is hosted in the USA administered by a company based in Italy. I suspect you may get a few different opinions regarding this law when you start querying the general populace of these three countries alone. :wink:

68tjs:
In European Union the law obliges to warn when a site uses the cookies.
In other parts of the world this is also the case.

I'm aware of the EU law, but haven't found any other countries or coalitions implementing anything similar. Read on...

68tjs:
This law is useful and applicable.

Its intent is admirable (I support its sentiment). Its implementation/execution is pointless (I do not support its approach); it doesn't address the actual concern about privacy in any meaningful way. It turned out to be a waste of time, effort and money for those required to implement it, and it proved (is proving) to be little more than an annoyance for those using the sites where it was implemented.

68tjs:
I am waiting for Arduino to explain:
[...]

This website (like every website extant - in the past, present or future) is under no obligation to provide you with anything. Just as you are under no obligation to visit it if you have such (apparently overwhelming) concerns about its practices.

Dirk

Ballscrewbob:
@68tjs

Do a trace back to the servers but I think you will find they are probably located in a country NOT bound by those Euro rules.
Both Arduino.com and arduino.cc directly trace back to the USA. so saying stop thinking about the US is a moot point.

Yep, this site is hosted in the USA. However, the EU cookie law states that the company which operates in a EU state must comply. So, even though the site is hosted in the USA, Arduino AG (I believe this is the "parent" of this site and I believe it operates out of Italy; I'm willing to be corrected on both these points) operates out of Italy - which is an EU member state.

I've found four things of particular note in this "cookie law" and how it applies to this site:

  • every participating country sets its own requirements around implementation
  • most of these requirements amount to little more than a notice saying the site uses cookies (it appears the law does not even require the user to have to respond to such notices)
  • a point often missed is that sites which are non-commercial in nature are not required to follow this law
  • another point frequently missed is that this requirement is only applicable if a site uses cookies to track behaviour; it is not required by sites which use cookies only to manage essential operating information
    I'm not sure if the last two points apply to this site, and, unlike the OP, don't care enough to check.

Dirk

And this time we move to where is the holding parent company based following the re merge between CC and ORG

We already know that it is no longer Italy and we already know its name is not Arduino !

And it follows with your guidelines (not checked them) and manages to skip some too :slight_smile:

Ballscrewbob:
And this time we move to where is the holding parent company based following the re merge between CC and ORG

We already know that it is no longer Italy and we already know its name is not Arduino !

Hope you don't mind me getting a little pedantic: Arduino LLC and Arduino Srl have combined into a new company named Arduino Holding. "CC" and "ORG" are the TLDs of the respective domain names they use. (Apparently there's nothing definitive yet on them combining web efforts, and I couldn't find anything on "head quarters".)

Ballscrewbob:
And it follows with your guidelines (not checked them) and manages to skip some too :slight_smile:

Ditto on the :slight_smile:

Dirk

Dig a little more :wink: there's more to the story IIRC.

I do hope you guys are enjoying yourselves :slight_smile:

...R

@ R2 its all your fault :wink: