large scale project

hey guys
i had a collage project and i used Arduino for it and the doctor really liked the idea (which is measuring the volume of oxygen in a tank) so he wanted to apply it for some hospitals he know of and he asked me to be his partner but i never worked on something like that before so i don't know if Arduino will be enough for such big and dangerous application.

PS : i'm a mechanical engineering student but i always loved programming since i was in high school so i'm good at it but really have no knowledge of electronics (capacitors-PIC-transistors and those things)

so will i be able to work on such project or it will be impossible (i got a 2 weak window to learn anything i'm missing )

Well done getting yourself on the project, you must have done well.

The problem with using Arduino is that it is meant to be a teaching and hobby micro-controller, it is not intended for safety critical applications.

My suggestion is you first get some numbers around 'large scale project' (meaningless stated like that) then it might be possible give some idea of hardware requirements.

I see no issue in starting off with an Arduino of some kind as a development platform, but you must consider what platform you want to deploy it on, something appropriate for a safety critical application.

There is no difference in the instrumentaton due to the size of The tank IF THE SENSORS DO NOT CONTACT THE CONTENTS

If you need help, you need to provide a LOT more information.

As far as use of an Arduino, read the manufacturers data sheet for warnings and application’s. Do not use a forum as gospel.

remous1:
so will i be able to work on such project....i got a 2 weak window to learn anything i'm missing )

Probably not. It is likely to take more than two weeks to find out what you are missing. One place you might start is in your ability to spell. You have already proven the principle, and the next two weeks might be better used checking that you have viable intellectual property. If you have that, your job may be more or less done. You have already gotten well-earned plaudits from the doctor, but remember that he is only a doctor, not an industrialist, and there might be established and viable competition already out there. As noted above, Arduino per se, is not suited for this sort of thing, but the component parts and software may be entirely suitable, and the main job is to put them together in a proper commercial package which, I guess, is where the real work begins.

PerryBebbington:
Well done getting yourself on the project, you must have done well.

The problem with using Arduino is that it is meant to be a teaching and hobby micro-controller, it is not intended for safety critical applications.

My suggestion is you first get some numbers around 'large scale project' (meaningless stated like that) then it might be possible give some idea of hardware requirements.

I see no issue in starting off with an Arduino of some kind as a development platform, but you must consider what platform you want to deploy it on, something appropriate for a safety critical application.

i might have miss put it ....my project is simply measuring the volume of liquid on a tank ...but when i presented it to the doctor i stated that one of it's uses can be for measuring how much oxygen lift in a cylinder so it can warn the hospital to replace that cylinder (recently in Egypt a tragedy happened because of this ..the hospital ran out of oxygen without noticing which led to the death of many people) so after some research i might have an idea on how to do so but only if i will work with Arduino but since it's not practical like u said yourself ..so what other replacement should i start learning ?

It's up to you to decide if the project is safety critical or not and choose the hardware accordingly. You should not take advice on that from a bunch of folk you don't know on a forum!

Apart from that I'm sure Arduino can do the job. If it were me I'd use some kind of force sensor to weigh the cylinders.

PerryBebbington:
It's up to you to decide if the project is safety critical or not and choose the hardware accordingly. You should not take advice on that from a bunch of folk you don't know on a forum!

Apart from that I'm sure Arduino can do the job. If it were me I'd use some kind of force sensor to weigh the cylinders.

of course it's safety critical since sick people lives depends on it...so that's why i'm making sure that if i used ardunio wouldn't it malfunction after a while ?

i don't quite understand the first part of what you saying but assuming u mean that collage projects are nothing like real life work...so in that case i surly know and that's why i'm asking what is the equivalent for Arduino in real life projects?

I see nothing wrong with working on this if the only alternative is nothing at all. But it needs to be CLEARLY understood by everyone in authority that this is experimental, should not be relied upon, and must be replaced at the soonest possibly opportunity by a properly engineered and rigorously safety ensured system.

Do NOT connect any sensor to high pressure oxygen unless the sensor is rated for that purpose. High pressure O2 is an aggressive oxidizer and all traces of grease or other organic matter must be excluded.

S.

remous1:
of course it’s safety critical since sick people lives depends on it…so that’s why i’m making sure that if i used ardunio wouldn’t it malfunction after a while ?

Arduino is a good, reliable product BUT it was never designed for use in an environment where it failing could be dangerous. If you decide to use it in a safety critical application then the suitability of whatever hardware you choose is down to you. Arduino MIGHT be perfectly okay, but no one here is going to guarantee that for you, not me and other volunteers answering questions and not Arduino. It’s fine as a tool for development but your final product must be built on hardware that you know meet the safety requirements of what you have made. This is your decision to make, nothing we say changes that.

As to what the equivalent is to Arduino in a real life project, I can't really help. I have not worked in manufacturing and I have not worked in an environment where product failure could be fatal.

I have worked in public telephone exchanges and I know how they are (were, every thing is IP now) engineered so as to be fault tolerant, but I am not sure my experience there is what you need.

Maybe someone with the appropriate manufacturing background can help you better.

In the countries I've lived in, medical equipment, particularly life critical items, must be tested and certified which is an expensive process. In addition, the company that provides that equipment must show evidence of substantial liability insurance.

I suggest that you seek legal advice before proceeding.

So, you're really just monitoring the weight of tanks? Tanks sit on commercial scale with RS232 output or similar, and Arduino sends an alarm when the weight gets to some critical low point (prior to empty)?

CrossRoads:
So, you're really just monitoring the weight of tanks? Tanks sit on commercial scale with RS232 output or similar, and Arduino sends an alarm when the weight gets to some critical low point (prior to empty)?

I can see how that can go wrong; the monitoring fails, the tanks run dry, no oxygen, someone dies.

From your writing, I suspect you have not spent much time exploring around in the bowels of hospitals. You might find a way in your two weeks to do just that.
Oxygen and other gasses in hospitals are piped to rooms that need it. The tanked O2 will be found in a separate room, likely in the basement or first floor that is accessed only from outside so the gas distributor firm can replace the tanks.
The places with individual tanks will be found in doctor and dentist offices, not hospitals.
Paul

remous1:
i'm asking what is the equivalent for Arduino in real life projects?

An "Arduino" is not made for anything other than hobbyist prototyping and development. In order to cover their arses, Arduino, rightly, make that very clear. Nonetheless, the real guts of an Arduino, the ATMega328, or the like, and the software that you put in it, may be entirely suitable for your purpose. But it won't look like an Arduino, not even if you open the black box. Also, it will be commercially produced, tested ad nauseam, production quality controlled, and covered with national compliance logos, tralalala, all of which will take more than two weeks to put in place.

Sorry, but this proposition is completely muddled! :roll_eyes:

Oxygen in cylinders is highly compressed, not liquid. Weighing is entirely unnecessary, it is the pressure that is monitored to determine the level of supply. Liquid oxygen used in a (huge) Dewar tank already has a level monitoring system built in.

Nitrous oxide is stored in liquid form, but is not critical to life (in fact, the very opposite :astonished: ) and nowadays used only in obstetric units. Carbon dioxide similarly liquid, used only as a surgical adjunct.

Hospitals already have all this equipment as a matter of course.

Whatever happened in Egypt stays in Egypt we hope. It is clearly not a problem with equipment but human error if we can call it that; simply complete negligence and/ or corruption. :roll_eyes:

Consequently Arduino is not involved - it has no hope of compensating for wilful negligence!

still no one answered the real question which is..is there an equivalent for arduino for more serious projects? something that do the same job but more secure ? that's simply my question and i don't know why everyone is bothered with the project details which i didn't ask about

Perhaps if you posted more info on what it was that you actually did, as we have no idea how you are determining tank levels.

remous1:
still no one answered the real question which is..is there an equivalent for Arduino for more serious projects? something that do the same job but more secure?

That has been well answered. :roll_eyes:

It is not the "Arduino" that is relevant, though one might be very cautious about using cheap Chinese clones.

Any use of any microprocessor for "mission critical" applications requires negotiation with the chip manufacturer about its suitability for the purpose. The chip manufacturer will not provide a warranty so the project developer will need to perform testing of a complete system incorporating all component devices to determine what warranty they will be able to provide in conjunction with their legal team.