Re: Discussion re: approaches to providing assistance to programming questions

[anon76350110]

@Delta_G

Forget it.

I'm out.

It's all yours.

Wow that went from 0 - ridiculous in 3.2 seconds

Mate, Seriously LET'S TAKE A STEP BACK YEAH ?

let me address some of this

@Delta_G

Intentionally oversimplified. Did you see the question I was answering?

Indeed i did

@Delta_G

Did you notice the level of the poster I was responding to?

Absolutely

Did you also notice that i stated

• I was new to this forum
• But still an Engineer
• But Still... Wanting to give you your due respect as i checked out your history and ranking

Mate, how do we go from
Me extending courtesy and professional respect to
you saying

@Delta_G

Forget it.

I'm out.

OK Look

1. My apologies for offending you ,ok
2. I'm not here to argue
3. I'm not here to offend
   Nor was that my intention

My intention was TO CONTRIBUTE, ok.

Yes we are responding to a newbie
Yes we need to simplify
but we also need to be accurate when teaching them
re this

@Delta_G

I'm going to quit coming here if every time I try to help someone and put something in a simpler language for them I get pounced on by the pedants who want everything to be PhD level or nothing.

Mate i'm not being a Pedant, but seriously...
it sounds like you've been burnt by people on this forum.. and then some,
(just looking at it as a newcomer to this forum, ok. but not a newcomer on other forums in the past)
so.. i'm the straw that broke the camels back then ?

hmm , Mate look, i can make this good and i can say sorry and i can apologize and i'm happy to do it if it makes you happy and makes things right.
in saying that i'm not here to kiss your arse, but more than happy to extend professional courtesy and respect and understanding

but the point is this, in my opinion, even if i do , mate, inevitably someone else is gonna come along who genuinely is a pedant and they are going to piss you off
and then you'll be in the same boat as

@Delta_G

Forget it.

I'm out.

It's all yours.

I mean can you see the problem ?

void loop() {
Forget it
I'm Out
it's all yours
}

Cmon mate, you'll explode if you do that

I can only speak for me

• I understood who you were talking to
• I had foresight to see a posible conflict
• I therefore extend "The Courtesy" that any Engineer extends to another to show respect for the knowledge and time invested , ok
• I went on to make references to say things like

@anon76350110

so we can see what @Delta_G was trying to say with

@Delta_G

void means nothing.

But we can also see how this would have been confused as well.

I showed understanding, What else am i supposed to do ?

Mate you said
"void means nothing"
ok , but can you accept that is also loosely stated and can be mis interpreted by a newbie ?
I just added another perspective , o.k.
it wasn't to shit on you (i actually put in effort to make that clear)

You said

@Delta_G

I'm going to quit coming here

Mate, i'd rather you didn't.
I'd rather i apologize and you stay , ok

@Delta_G

I try to help someone and put something in a simpler language

we are all trying to help and put into simpler language
but WE ALL have a disability , it's called "Being really damn good at what we do" to the point where "newbie speak" is foreign to us ok
we are all trying to simplify in our own way and the newbie can choose which way resonates with them

@Delta_G

I'm trying to help out newbies. They can learn that there's technically more to it later.

sure, but DATA TYPES is something you learn in the beginning
that;s 101 Stuff
so if we are mentioning that void is a "type" why not call it a "data type"
now here is, no doubt where you think i'm pedantic
NO, that's not how i see it

i see it as

• i really wished when i started out that someone explained stuff to me properly
• i'm trying to help the newbie not be confused, just like you are
• i found that multiple examples helped me, which is why i supplied them

Maybe you forget, but.. Newbies don't think like us and don't connect things like us.
so why not allow a few different points of views ?
if this were reversed and you did the same to me, i would probably have responded by saying
"fair enough" and given you a like

@Delta_G

I think I'm done with this site

i think thats an over reaction
but hey, i can't be the first that pissed you off right so i don't think i'm to blame here.
Mate really i reckon your patience is worn away
Maybe it's you that's the problem
maybe it actually is the forum that wore you down (me : i have infinite patience) but i'm not like a lot of people , i know that,
You do need to decide if you want to be here and that's a separate issue
maybe you just need a little time to think things over and you better read between the lines in case you need it when you're older

Perhaps a time-out is what you need, a break from the B.S.

as for me
Mate, i want you to sinderely know there was no B.S. from here there was just respect and courtesy
you mis interpreted my intentions, FOR THAT I APOLOGIZE
But man.. did you go off the deep end or what ?

Cmon mate
take a step back
Make a coffee
Get laid
Come back and have a chat with me ok

[anon76350110]

@Delta_G

Nothing personal

LOL..... and here we go
OK, Obviously i can see this couldn't just be me (no way !)
Also i'm the kind of person that saying "nothing personal" to is an irrelevant statement.
From the age of 16 or so maybe completely by 22 i eliminated stress out of my life,
i'm 50 tomorrow, mate i haven't taken anything personally or stressed in approx 30 years so .. don't worry about it, say what you like, Get it out mate

What happens within the confines of the walls of the arduino forum
Stays within the confines of the walls of the arduino forum

@Delta_G

It seems like every time I try to put something into simpler terms so someone new can relate the thread goes off on a thousand post rant about how it's technically not correct on this one obscure point or whatever.

o.k i get it
can i ask something though ?
Are you sure it's not you ?
One thing i've learned in 50 years is there are many different personalities here and in society, there are those we are compatible with and those that boggle our existence (Women... Being the prime example )
You just gotta understand , that's the organic nature of the forum,
so... You're getting stressed at the forum for being what it is , That's like getting angry at a bird for chirping. it doesn't know any different so we are supposed to show Understanding
WE, As the technical people are supposed to rise above it.
so is it you
or is it actually dickheads on the forum repeated 100x before i showed up ?

@Delta_G

And the poor person who started the thread hoping to learn something gets completely forgotten and lost.

No, I haven't forgotten the newbie
I'm waiting for them to respond
but you're right, This kinda scares them off doesn't it ?
Scared little newbie cub hiding under the rock hoping to god that the 2 T-Rex's fighting will stop and just go away
UNLESS WE FIX IT !

Even then the newbie will be cautious

@Delta_G

I sure am glad I learned this stuff before all you gatekeepers showed up to make sure nobody can have an elementary explanation of anything.

I disagree with this mate
There are no gate keepers unless you invent them

But why can't we have discussion

[anon76350110]

@paulpaulson

Hello Forum members

Take a view into the text book wrt 'void'.

4.2 — Void – Learn C++

and it's R2-D2 to the rescue
"You're our only hope"
Now we can return to normal again

[UKHeliBob]

@anon76350110

so "int" is a data type, specifically an "Integer"

That is a little too simplistic but how far should you go in answering the original question which was, after all, about the meaning of void ?

Whilst it is true that

@anon76350110

"int" is a data type, specifically an "Integer"

so as a result

@anon76350110

int Pin = 5.2

is impossible

the int variable type also indicates that the value of the integer variable can be negative and it also specifies how large or small the value of the associated variable can be depending on the processor that you are using

This conversation illustrates that it is often impossible to answer even a simple question without going deeper and deeper down a rabbit hole

[J-M-L]

@anon76350110

it's supposed to be DATA TYPE
Out of habit and for simplicity we call it "a type"

I found @Delta_G simplified explanation to be valuable in the context of this thread. It was the right level of explanation.

if you want to correct someone because « you are an engineer » then it’s better to use the proper engineering wording and not invent something or bring excel to explain C++ in my opinion.

The C++ specification talks about types and not Data Types

---

Type

Basic Concepts

Objects, references, functions including function template specializations, and expressions have a property called type, which both restricts the operations that are permitted for those entities and provides semantic meaning to the otherwise generic sequences of bits

---

There is a taxonomy for types and one classification is known as fundamental types and void is one of those, the explanation is available here.

Fundamental types

(See also type for type system overview and the list of type-related utilities that are provided by the C++ library)

Void type

void — type with an empty set of values. It is an incomplete type that cannot be completed (consequently, objects of type void are disallowed). There are no arrays of void, nor references to void. However, pointers to void and functions returning type void (procedures in other languages) are permitted.

---

@anon76350110

therefore a statement like

int Pin = 5.2

is impossible

It’s possible and fully documented.

The C++ specification explains and defines what happens when you try to perform a Floating–integral conversion.

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/implicit_conversion

• A prvalue of floating-point type can be converted to a prvalue of any integer type. The fractional part is truncated, that is, the fractional part is discarded. If the value cannot fit into the destination type, the behavior is undefined (even when the destination type is unsigned, modulo arithmetic does not apply). If the destination type is bool, this is a boolean conversion (see below).

---

My recommendation would be to word your answer as a deeper dive or alternate explanation rather than calling someone else’s incorrect just because the other explanation did not match your own standards - otherwise we will start a finger pointing discussion that does not add value to the thread.

(Yes I’m an engineer too and likes concepts and precision)

[StefanL38]

[details = off-topic click to open ]

Now there are 8 pretty long posts off-topic about this off-topic-aspects
What do you think. This forum-software offers html-formatting options like
I mean this

[details = click to open]
your text folded = unvisible by default
could be pages long.
Does not show until you unfold by clicking the triangle

[/details] 

This would enable three things

1. saving screen-space to scroll over
2. keep the thread "clean" in the sense of direct related text is directly visible
3. off-topic comments could stay in the thread
   [/details]

[pert]

I moved the valuable and interesting tangential meta-discussion to a dedicated topic. Carry on.

[anon56112670]

@pert

I moved the valuable and interesting tangential meta-discussion to a dedicated topic

You appear to have missed off the start.

[alto777]

@anon76350110

and then of course the curly brackets {}

Braces. TBH I wouldn't have bothered responding to your post otherwise. Pet peeve.

"void" tells it that the data type to be used for "setup" is one that "returns no value"
which is also why the brackets () are empty with no specified value

So the () (parentheses BTW) are empty because the function returns void?

I'm sure you know that it really should be

void setup(void) {

}

and I bet you could tell us why either that or the way it comes out if the box with a new sketch works.

Yawn.

It is hard to stay precisely exact with the engineering concepts and also get the English right. By the time you did both, many short, readable and useful answers would become an intimidating wall of jargon technical vocabulary and prose.

I know what you meant. Maybe "everybody" does. But words be words, not everyone is a native speaker and people really trying will be able to learn something wrong right there.

I understand the pedagogical value of using your big words, leading by example with code that would fly through a review at XYZ Inc. &c. But I think it is better to get in the crib sometimes, and bring noobs a bit further up the learning curve without going to the kind of extreme (in my opinion) it is to quibble about Fata Types vs. Types.

I will cheerfully cop to describing things imprecisely, never so much that it will cause problems should someone go away dangerously misinformed or likely to embarrass herself in class or wherever. Or errors in code she might write.

Similarly if I post code I make an effort to use the fewest language features possible. No matter the OP's demonstrated sophistication. I like to hope noobs actually read widely on these fora, in particular.

Usually gross errors from contributors get seen and corrected. Gently or not, by a degree or maybe two, Rarely does it become a large deal with members taking sides and going down the rabbit hole.

You gotta read the fora room. I don't think the audience is disserved here by the relatively informal nature of the conversation.

As for your qualifications, I'm sorry about that. Sorry to know. I'll try to forget. Your answers will speak for themselves, in time any who care to will know what to expect from you.

Because who cares? Unless you are going add your credentials to every post, noobs will do what they do - ask, get answers, sometimes enjoy a protracted discussion on a trivial side issue and go away having developed or refined their ideas about who is worth listening to and who's having fun and who is getting out ahead of her skis in a desire to "give back" a bit earlier in her career than she should.

a7

[anon76350110]

@J-M-L

I found @Delta_G simplified explanation to be valuable in the context of this thread. It was the right level of explanation.

Fair enough, and as i said before, everyone interprets differently.
What was the harm in giving the newbie choices ?

@J-M-L

if you want to correct someone because « you are an engineer »

I wasn't correcting some BECAUSE i'm an Engineer (that would be stupid).
I was offering another point of view that the O.P. may have responded to,
I Just mentioned "Engineer" out of courtesy

@J-M-L

then it’s better to use the proper engineering wording and not invent something or bring excel to explain C++ in my opinion.

OK but

1. RE Engineering wording - The O.P. is a lamen so there is that

2. I'm not inventing anything, "DATA TYPES" are a valid topic, that's not my invention , that's part of basic curriculum.

3. DATA TYPES is not exclusive to C++ it spreads across all languages as well as Datbases
   and applicaations.
   But really (speaking plainly).. Can you not see the direction i was taking with the O.P.
   by showing Excel Data Types ? (did i really need to explain this) or..
   Did someone on the forum put out an S.O.S. to hammer down on me ?

Really for a simple thing that could have been worked out between me and the other guy
this is a lot of attention for a simple misunderstanding.
So..What's the problem ?

if he's stressed, I understand that
but what's your position here, clearly it's not just a comment, clearly it's defensive
so.. Tell me straight , in the spirit of having better future communication, What's the problem ? did you think i was being a smart arse or something , i mean i made it clear didn't i that i wasn't, i'm being transparent, What's the issue ?

@J-M-L

The C++ specification talks about types and not Data Types

A Type is a DATA Type
granted i've been doing programming for like 3 years and C++ for 1 year as i'm a hardware guy, now lets say that somehow i was wrong about this,
But what.. He didn't fly off the handle ?

and when he did, did i get the shits ?
No i didn't
so again, what's the issue ?

@anon76350110

int Pin = 5.2

is impossible

really well i didn't know that you can use int and have a decimal value, this would then bring us back to how do we define "int" my understanding was "integer"
but ok, i can research that

@J-M-L

rather than calling someone else’s incorrect

i didn't say incorrect
i said PARTIALLY incorrect (there's a difference)
i did also extent the courtesy to show it wasn't an attack
so... why was that ignored ?

@J-M-L

just because the other explanation did not match your own standards

No.. that;s not how i meant that, that;s your take on it
and.. i understand, and i am new, but.. that's your take and you take responsibility for that one and i'll take responsibility for what i meant
let's then call this a misunderstanding

@J-M-L

Yes I’m an engineer too and likes concepts and precision

Excellent, and i don't give you shit for it, do i ?
i don't say you're throwing out the "Engineer" card when you're not
so understand that i also wasn't ok

Mate this attention that i got here for something so small and petty is ridiculous,
My intention is not to go through the forum and 1 by 1 make enemies here, i would like to think that i could get along with you guys, Aren't we all here for electronics at the end of the day ?

so as i said

• I don't stress
• Misunderstandings are fine by me
• i have no bad blood

But really ,look how many posts i got from this one thing LOL
so.. is this how it will be moving forward ?

[anon76350110]

@alto777

@anon76350110

and then of course the curly brackets {}

Braces. TBH I wouldn't have bothered responding to your post otherwise. Pet peeve.

Fair enough so "Curly Brackets" is a sin is it ? and "Braces" is correct ?
i don't know so i ask, i was taught
() - Brackets
{} - Curly Brackets
[] - Square Brackets
is this incorrect ?

@alto777

So the () (parentheses BTW) are empty because the function returns void?

isn't that what i said ?

@alto777

It is hard to stay precisely exact with the engineering concepts and also get the English right. By the time you did both, many short, readable and useful answers would become an intimidating wall of jargon technical vocabulary and prose.

Fair enough, although my intention was not to piss off, but to provide another point of view.

@alto777

I know what you meant.

I'm glad, it seems you're the first, and.. i thought i made it obvious and simple.

@alto777

Maybe "everybody" does. But words be words, not everyone is a native speaker and people really trying will be able to learn something wrong right there.

Fair enough, but we are not mind readers and they should tell is .
IMO Communication is Key
Assumption is a waste of time.
I can make the exception because i'm the new guy, i get that, but it does suprise me how far this went for such B.S.

@alto777

I understand the pedagogical value of using your big words,

i wasn't trying to use "big words" DATA is not a big word

@alto777

But I think it is better to get in the crib sometimes, and bring noobs a bit further up the learning curve without going to the kind of extreme (in my opinion) it is to quibble about Fata Types vs. Types.

ok i get that, but i did explain why i did that and it was based on how i started off
and what i wished i was taught and how.
as i said, we all start up differently don't we. some learn the details, some don't really care, but why not have the option
but also mate, how the other went off, i hardly reckon that was ok
i mean, i made a comment and his response was
"that's it , i'm leaving" LOL
and i thought "wow" you know ?
i didn't steal his women, i made a comment.

@alto777

never so much that it will cause problems

and i wasn't trying to cause problems

@alto777

As for your qualifications, I'm sorry about that. Sorry to know. I'll try to forget. Your answers will speak for themselves, in time any who care to will know what to expect from you.

Exactly, so for now until they do know, of course i have to mention some level of knowledge or experience, as time goes by it won't be necessary because a reputation will be established, i agree.

@alto777

Because who cares? Unless you are going add your credentials to every post, noobs will do what they do

Perhaps you're right, my intention was not to show off, my intention was to help but give the newb a bit of confidence he wasn't talking to another newb, that's all it was.
i would like to think that i am giving back.

[anon76350110]

@pert

I moved the valuable and interesting tangential meta-discussion to a dedicated topic. Carry on.

I Understand and sort of suspected it would.
Just waiting to see what @Delta_G will reply with

[anon56112670]

@anon76350110

isn't that what i said ?

It is what you wrote, and it was incorrect.
The parentheses are empty because you're not passing any arguments; nothing at all to do with the lack of a return value

[anon76350110]

Ohh, i see the difference now,o.k. Thanks for that.
in my mind i had the 2 mashed up as 1 thing.
i'll go back and change that

[dougp]

@Delta_G

And the poor person who started the thread hoping to learn something gets completely forgotten and lost.

This.

[alto777]

@anon76350110

i'll go back and change that

And that's why we quote stuff.

I'm sure everything will be fine, sorry to be part of this in any way.

Please don't edit previous posts beyond a stray comma or typo. It can make trash of the following conversation. Not so much here, just a general tip.

@anon76350110

of course i have to mention some level of knowledge or experience

Not so much. Many did not and do not. The collective education and experience here is deep and vast, no one cares if you programmed for the space shuttle or have a degree from wherever.

Lastly, I think what may have got your hand in the wringer is (paraphrasing) the "you are wrong because I am right" kinda thing, no matter softened by adjectives.

Just say the right thing, leave off the pointing out who is wrong. Believe me, we who make mistakes get plenty of abraiding all on our own just reading the correct answers.

HTH and CU on the fora.

a7

[anon76350110]

@alto777

And that's why we quite stuff.

I'm sure everything will be fine, sorry to be part of this in any way.

Please don't edit previous posts beyond a stray comma or typo. It can make trash of the following conversation. Not so much here, just a general tip.

No, no problem mate
However

@alto777

Please don't edit previous posts beyond a stray comma or typo

I did go back and edit the original post to try and smooth things out, i figured if i left it
@Delta_G might get the shits that i said "this is incorrect" so i changed it to something a bit nicer.
also i changed my reference to my engineering background to "I.T. Expert" in an attempt to not come off like an arsehole

Should i have not done that ?

You know what mate, i'll be straight with you.
I was raised in a time when you said what you said and if you didn't mean anything by it, it was o.k.
I mean, i'm happy to change a few things to be a nice guy and all until you all get to know me and everything.
But it's not my normal behaviour to go around changing my words for someone that didn't like them

If people are too sensitive i chalk that up .. that's their issue.

it looks like this forum did a job on @Delta_G and i was the straw that broke the camels back. so i'm only doing this to show him understanding.

I'm only doing it because @Delta_G looks like he's going through a lot and i don't want to make it worse
at the end of the day , this was just a simple comment and.. my god did this blow up.
also i've noticed....

• Lots on posts on what i've said incorrectly

• Nothing on his over reaction ???? So we are just going to ignore that are we ?

Not offended, Just saying, a bit weird don't you think,

[anon76350110]

@alto777

Lastly, I think what may have got your hand in the wringer is (paraphrasing) the "you are wrong because I am right" kinda thing, no matter softened by adjectives.

Fair enough, although...
That's just how i speak, I'm direct, i'm not an arsehole though
and to me this says.. there are people here that are more sensitive than they need to be.

But fair enough though, I'm not going to change how i talk, for anyone.
but i don't expect them to change for me either

In saying that

• I expect the forum and experienced users to have understanding
• I'm happy to also show understanding
• I'm happy to try and adapt to the forum as well

we can't be little fairies here, can we ? because that's pointless and time wasting.
We can respect each other though and learn from each other , I Assumed the latter was what was happening here ,

Anyway, Thanks mate , i'll keep an eye on it ok

[J-M-L]

[details = digression from original topic - answer to @anon76350110 ]

I'll try to explain why I think you got the reaction you got, from me and others.

@anon76350110

I was offering another point of view that the O.P. may have responded to,
I Just mentioned "Engineer" out of courtesy

@anon76350110

but what's your position here, clearly it's not just a comment, clearly it's defensive

I replied because I found your wording (despite all the signs of respects) felt condescending (that's how I got it even if that was not your intent, and apparently @Delta_G got it the same way) and you came in very pedantic and sure of yourself when you stated

However i am an I.T. Engineer and see the obvious problem here.

** Certain people have ways of explaining things and its not wrong, it's just who they are and how they explain things*
** As technical people the more we learn we develop a certain habit of talking to tech people that gets more and more removed from talking to newbies*

so let me correct this a little ok

which basically I read as "the poor lad did not know any better and tried his best and explained things the way he could, it's not his fault if it was incorrect, some people are just like that and can't explain things clearly and correctly like an engineer would do and so let me correct him...."

➜ that is really how I felt it, wether it was your intent or not and it was a trigger point for me and probably others. I would have let it go, @Delta_G is old enough to state his mind — and he did — but what you said was also "incorrect" by your "definition" - and so for the sake of precision, needed further documentation (and may be you would learn a things or two along the way).

you said

@anon76350110

• I'm not inventing anything, "DATA TYPES" are a valid topic, that's not my invention , that's part of basic curriculum.

and you said

it's supposed to be DATA TYPE
Out of habit and for simplicity we call it "a type"

Well "data type" is actually colloquial English when you talk about a variable's type to refer to the content's type, but it's not how the standard sees it and it's definitely not a habit or for simplicity to shorten that up, quite the opposite.

If you want to discuss types in C++ (not in excel as it's not the same thing), it's good to go back to the specification. A type is a property of Objects, references, functions or expressions (and more).

For example, given the question was about the meaning of void in front of a function, the type of a function consists of the function's return type AND the types of all parameters (and a few other things but I'll keep it simple if you allow me). So all of a sudden it's no longer about DATA (a function is not DATA) and it's no longer simple (it's a list of types).

Still talking about void, you would need to discuss what is known as an incomplete type (the type void cannot be completed).

so long story short I did not see what your "correction" was bringing...

PS: I see you now have edited your post to remove your mistake about the Floating–integral conversion and toned down other stuff

that makes further remarks and the whole discussion about this irrelevant. It's not a good practice to remove things from a post once they have been discussed.

We got that you did not mean it the way it was received, there is no real value in modifying things after the facts...

Anyway, that's it for me.
[/details]

[anon76350110]

@J-M-L

I'll try to explain why I think you got the reaction you got, from me and others.

O.K. and i appreciate you taking the time.

@J-M-L

I replied because I found your wording (despite all the signs of respects) felt condescending (that's how I got it even if that was not your intent, and apparently @Delta_G got it the same way) and you came in very pedantic and sure of yourself when you stated

O.K. well the entire point here is

@J-M-L

(despite all the signs of respects)

This should not have been omitted , it should have been taken as gospel and as my show of true intent

@J-M-L

felt condescending

This is an interpretation, My comment on showing respect was a clarification on that interpretation, Basically, my effort to smooth it out was crushed because my genuine comment was over ruled by an assumption.

i get that he got it that way, But mate, i did put in effort to clear it up with him, Did i not ?
and as i said, this B.S. is just a misunderstanding (Primarily because i'm the new guy) which is fine, but it's a misunderstanding regardless

so how do we clear all this up then ?
I'm not pissed off
i didn't mean to offend
Nor was i intending to be pedantic

I've apologized even though i didn't have to
I've edited the post to include some "nicer wording"
so.. how do we make this right in your experience here ?

Mate , FYI i'm not being condescending or rude, i just am the way i am and you guys are not used to that yet i guess
I'm direct that's all it is

@J-M-L

which basically I read as "the poor lad did not know any better and tried his best and explained things the way he could, it's not his fault if it was incorrect, some people are just like that and can't explain things clearly and correctly like an engineer would do and so let me correct him...."

No Mate,,HELL NO
so ok..
From your point of view and his it reads like that.
My mantra is.. The way i wrote LITERALLY is how i want you to take it.

OK let me offer my transalation for comparison

@J-M-L

However i am an I.T. Engineer and see the obvious problem here.

Transalation : FYI i have experience in this field and i see what i feel is an obvious issue, it's nothing personal, just an observation

@J-M-L

** Certain people have ways of explaining things and its not wrong, it's just who they are and how they explain things*

This means exactly what it says, it just means , we are all different, and each of us can explain the same thing differently and sometimes it takes the right person to resonate with someone
and.. that doesn't mean i thought i was the right person it means more like...
i don't know if i am but hey... here is my 2 cents worth just in case i am.

@J-M-L

As technical people the more we learn we develop a certain habit of talking to tech people that gets more and more removed from talking to newbies

This should be self explanatory
simply means.. the more we know the less connected we become with newbies,
there's nothing wrong in this

@J-M-L

that is really how I felt it

O.K. and.. as a newcomer i apologized
i explained myself
and i apologize again but listen...

i said one thing ok (and i'll take responsibility for THAT)
but you heard this.....

@J-M-L

which basically I read as "the poor lad did not know any better and tried his best and explained things the way he could, it's not his fault if it was incorrect, some people are just like that and can't explain things clearly and correctly like an engineer would do and so let me correct him...."

Mate, i'm not responsible for that since i'm not a mind reader,
i know i didn't even remotely mean that
and i'm being honest ok

@J-M-L

wether it was your intent or not and it was a trigger point for me and probably others.

well then honestly... and respectfully
is it not correct to say that "trigger point" was not my faut ?
Look at how much effort i'm putting in to fix this.
you can't say

@J-M-L

wether it was your intent or not

Because i clearly outlined my intent,
if people choose not to hear it, how is that on me ?

My responsibility is

• To show understanding as the new guy
• To be respectful to a degree (not to kiss arse , but just common respect)
• To try and clear up misunderstandings from my own words

Other people's responsibility

• Listen to what i'm saying
• Accept that i'm being genuine
• Have an willingness to want to sort it out
• Don't assume things that i have not said

that's fair isn't it ?

@J-M-L

I would have let it go, @Delta_G is old enough to state his mind

Fine, and so am i
this is just a misunderstanding, not a pissing contest ,
i'm not trying to demean anyone , nor is there anything to let go off since there is no actual argument (at least not on my end)

to me it looks like the forum already pissed him off before i came around,
but again, old or not, I apologized!

@J-M-L

(and may be you would learn a things or two along the way).

sure, and .. that's why i'm here
Happy to be corrected, but mate you guys can't just make up what i'm saying, you need to listen to what i'm saying if i'm trying to fix things, ok

@J-M-L

If you want to discuss types in C++ (not in excel as it's not the same thing)

i just gave the Excel example so the newbie could glance over different data types and get a jist for what it was. i wasn't implying that Excel and C++ were the same , i was just trying to use a simple resource they would have been familiar with, that's all

as for data types

@J-M-L

it's supposed to be DATA TYPE
Out of habit and for simplicity we call it "a type"

this comment is just how i talk,
i wouldn't ask anyone to change how they talk, right ?
but UNDERSTANDING is the key here
Assumptions don't get us anywhere,
so as i type all this "For Clarification and Explanation" i trust you are taking it ALL literally
and not assuming more stuff , right ? because i am being honest with you and trying to sort this out

@J-M-L

(and a few other things but I'll keep it simple if you allow me)

If i allow you ? LOL
Mate i'm not in charge of you nor am i sensitive , Say whatever you want,

@J-M-L

So all of a sudden it's no longer about DATA (a function is not DATA) and it's no longer simple (it's a list of types).

hmm, ok fair enough and very interesting
Look (and maybe this is part of the problem)
I'm 49, done electronics since i was 4 , Ran my business for 27 years now, I.T. and Telecommunication's
I'm 70's Electronics,the good old days, now maybe @Delta_G is 60's i don't know. in any case we should understand each other both being old school.
but i'm a hardware guy at heart, as far as programming
C-64 BASIC (when i was like 10 or so ) i did write my own programs,
Recently built a CPU with a mate then built a graphics card from machine code
based on (first) Z80 then we moved to 6502
in the last 3 years i've been helping people with Arduino, teensy and ESP32 Projects, First year was mainly copy and paste examples, i now believe i have enough under my belt (to a degree) to write my own code without examples.
but.. i wouldn't call myself a C++ Expert

I've gone through 4 Arduino courses currently doing a C++ specific course
so yes i'm still learning coding which is why i'm here
but i reckon i still have enough knowledge to help people on subjects that i know.
FACT - i recently helped a forum member with a relay module and U.S. Sensor project (it wasn't a big deal) but point is he didn't know his basics and i helped him.

now my poiint here was...
i was taught they were DATA TYPES
but i'm happy to learn otherwise
but mate, even if i'm wrong @Delta_G s reaction was un called for

@J-M-L

PS: I see you now have edited your post to remove your mistake about the Floating–integral conversion and toned down other stuff

yes i made changes in an attempt to cool things down and make delta and maybe the mods happy, did it work by the way ?

@J-M-L

that makes further remarks and the whole discussion about this irrelevant. It's not a good practice to remove things from a post once they have been discussed.

OK so what should i have done because i'm now confused.
my thinking was... if i didn't change it i'd be an arrogant arsehole and in light of apologizing my apology would be viewed as null
so how do we know what to do then ?

@J-M-L

We got that you did not mean it the way it was received, there is no real value in modifying things after the facts...

Anyway, that's it for me.

ok thats good
so why is it still continuing then and why has @Delta_G not said anything personally.
I'm still waiting for a response from him to clear it up