Hi,
I am trying to make a simple break beam circuit with these components= https://www.sparkfun.com/products/241
I am new to electronics and have no idea how to determine what size resistor to use etc.
I have an arduino uno and a breadboard (as well as all the resistors and wire that come with the official starter kit)
Thanks for any help you can offer.
The link to "IR schematic" on the page you linked, shows the values.
One is simply the usual LED series current limiter. The other is a pull up which you would leave out if you configure your Arduino input as INPUT_PULLUP.
Information to be found here http://www.reconnsworld.com/ir_ultrasonic_basicirdetectemit.html
Cheers Pete.
Thanks guys 
I didnt have a 270 ohm resistor so used a 220 ohm. Is this an issue? What are the impacts of using a wrong resistor?
It seems to be working I just ran the output into the analog input and I am checking the values out over serial. They drop when I put my finger in the way.
The schematic confuses me a bit regarding the output.
I put my resistor from power to a row in the breadboard, I then plugged the output cable from that row to analog in. Then i put the anode of the detector in that row also.
Does the order matter if they are all on the same row of the breadboard?
Is it correct to plug the output into the anode leg of the detector? i.e. is that what the schematic means?
just first time looking at a schematic so just need those things clearing up thanks.
Either way, it appears to be working! I mean the serial shows the values changing.
Thanks again for the help
I realize you are new to electronics but I feel compelled to tell you that you are crippling yourself by putting your project as a higher priority than learning how to read and draw schematics. In my opinion, doing electronics projects without knowing how to read and draw schematics is counter-productive and just results in more problems , either in trying to communicate with us as you are now or in circuits not working.
I have to say that some 45 ish years ago I was given my very first electronic kit. No ICs all discrete components. I build my very first radio set at the age of 9. I achieved all this without the need to be able to read schematics or understand the finer points of electronics. I did have a resister colour chart to help me pick the correct value resistors and some drawings to help me identify the legs of the transistors. I would like to think that this exercise has not "crippled" my progress but rather it whetted my interest in electronics in a way I could understand that has lead me to where I am now. At the time of building my radio I had Zero electronic theory. I am still learning 45 years later.
Take a look at fritzing .... breadboard layout .. I rest my case.
But then I may just be the odd one out.
Cheers Pete.
raschemmel:
I realize you are new to electronics but I feel compelled to tell you that you are crippling yourself by putting your project as a higher priority than learning how to read and draw schematics. In my opinion, doing electronics projects without knowing how to read and draw schematics is counter-productive and just results in more problems , either in trying to communicate with us as you are now or in circuits not working.
both of you guys make great points
Thanks for the input
raschemmel:
I realize you are new to electronics but I feel compelled to tell you that you are crippling yourself by putting your project as a higher priority than learning how to read and draw schematics. In my opinion, doing electronics projects without knowing how to read and draw schematics is counter-productive and just results in more problems , either in trying to communicate with us as you are now or in circuits not working.
Just started watching a ten part lecture series on electronics. Supposed to teach you circuits from the ground up inc schematics and capacitors, resistors etc
Bainesbunch:
I have to say that some 45 ish years ago I was given my very first electronic kit. No ICs all discrete components. I build my very first radio set at the age of 9. I achieved all this without the need to be able to read schematics or understand the finer points of electronics. I did have a resister colour chart to help me pick the correct value resistors and some drawings to help me identify the legs of the transistors. I would like to think that this exercise has not "crippled" my progress but rather it whetted my interest in electronics in a way I could understand that has lead me to where I am now. At the time of building my radio I had Zero electronic theory. I am still learning 45 years later.Take a look at fritzing .... breadboard layout .. I rest my case.
But then I may just be the odd one out.
Cheers Pete.
raschemmel:
I realize you are new to electronics but I feel compelled to tell you that you are crippling yourself by putting your project as a higher priority than learning how to read and draw schematics. In my opinion, doing electronics projects without knowing how to read and draw schematics is counter-productive and just results in more problems , either in trying to communicate with us as you are now or in circuits not working.
Hacking is certainly a fun and exciting way to learn, that keeps you engaged making and thus motivating. You can learn as you need as you go. I mostly learn this way myself.
c_breeez:
Bainesbunch:
I have to say that some 45 ish years ago I was given my very first electronic kit. No ICs all discrete components. I build my very first radio set at the age of 9. I achieved all this without the need to be able to read schematics or understand the finer points of electronics. I did have a resister colour chart to help me pick the correct value resistors and some drawings to help me identify the legs of the transistors. I would like to think that this exercise has not "crippled" my progress but rather it whetted my interest in electronics in a way I could understand that has lead me to where I am now. At the time of building my radio I had Zero electronic theory. I am still learning 45 years later.Take a look at fritzing .... breadboard layout .. I rest my case.
But then I may just be the odd one out.
Cheers Pete.
raschemmel:
I realize you are new to electronics but I feel compelled to tell you that you are crippling yourself by putting your project as a higher priority than learning how to read and draw schematics. In my opinion, doing electronics projects without knowing how to read and draw schematics is counter-productive and just results in more problems , either in trying to communicate with us as you are now or in circuits not working.Hacking is certainly a fun and exciting way to learn, that keeps you engaged making and thus motivating. You can learn as you need as you go. I mostly learn this way myself.
The Ethos of Arduino is to bring electronic building to the masses by "plugging" in shields and sensors with little knowledge on how they work internally.
For my sins I also play base guitar, I have never read a music theory book but I can tell a bum note when I hear one and I leaned to play a stomping walking blues riff by trial end error. Iteration through mistakes is a fun way to learn. I will never be a session musician but i am still having "fun"
Cheers Pete.
Bainesbunch:
c_breeez:
Bainesbunch:
I have to say that some 45 ish years ago I was given my very first electronic kit. No ICs all discrete components. I build my very first radio set at the age of 9. I achieved all this without the need to be able to read schematics or understand the finer points of electronics. I did have a resister colour chart to help me pick the correct value resistors and some drawings to help me identify the legs of the transistors. I would like to think that this exercise has not "crippled" my progress but rather it whetted my interest in electronics in a way I could understand that has lead me to where I am now. At the time of building my radio I had Zero electronic theory. I am still learning 45 years later.Take a look at fritzing .... breadboard layout .. I rest my case.
But then I may just be the odd one out.
Cheers Pete.
raschemmel:
I realize you are new to electronics but I feel compelled to tell you that you are crippling yourself by putting your project as a higher priority than learning how to read and draw schematics. In my opinion, doing electronics projects without knowing how to read and draw schematics is counter-productive and just results in more problems , either in trying to communicate with us as you are now or in circuits not working.Hacking is certainly a fun and exciting way to learn, that keeps you engaged making and thus motivating. You can learn as you need as you go. I mostly learn this way myself.
The Ethos of Arduino is to bring electronic building to the masses by "plugging" in shields and sensors with little knowledge on how they work internally.
For my sins I also play base guitar, I have never read a music theory book but I can tell a bum note when I hear one
Cheers Pete.
Hahah awesome man, I too am a terrible self taught guitarist haha, its great fun.
I did computer science at university and we were actually taught to learn programming through trial and error. The lecturer would always say you can't teach this stuff, you have do it, encounter problems and that way you learn and it sticks in your brain. So we were just set programming problems every week and we all really enjoyed and learn't extremely fast. The guy was a great teacher.
I guess it was that ethos that drew me to arduino, I read Massimo's book and it made me hopeful someone with no practical knowledge of electronics can have fun making their own gadgets.
That being said the theory is also great too, I guess good learning is all about a good mix of it all. But nothing beats practical work, it is very rewarding and provides memorable lessons.
Amen
I am a Blues fan as well. I used to see Albert & BB King live at the Philmore in San Fransisco. I only started learning electronics 35 years ago when I was a full time restaurant cook trying to cross-train myself in my off time. I started with RadioShack children's
electronics kits with the spring contacts that allow you to wire hundreds of different circuits (one at a time) without solder. I also used Heathkit Homestudy Electronics courses, but by far, the most useful medium were the 'cookbooks" , which are the electronics version of recipe books , that have an introduction to the theory , then the schematic and some paragraphs that amount to application notes. When I started, I did not know how to read schematics, but I quickly learned. I think that trying to encourage newcomers to electronics to remain ignorant of schematics is detrimental to their advancement. If you were talking about children playing with toys it would make perfect sense, but to encourage adults to "play" with electronics and not worry about "how " a circuit works is not only counter productive , it is just plain stupid. If the individual is Bank VP who wants to build his own security system as a hobby , then I suppose it makes sense. Would you try to teach someone how to overhaul an engine without knowing how to read a mechanical drawing ? Sure, that is totally possible and probably happens every day, but not because they choose to do it that way. If they are not using drawings it is probably because they don't have them. The forum is inundated with a plethora of people who get into the arduino hobby with the attitude that "It's Shake & Bake , anyone can do it !" and the Instructables , though very informative , propagate this attitude with their reputation for not including schematics. Admittedly some do include schematics, but the majority don't. I find this attitude to be idiotic. A schematic is really not that hard to understand. You really only need to learn 20 or 30 symbols to get by. Yesterday some guy posted because he was having trouble with a pot (potentiometer). Since his problem seemed to be hardware related, I naturally asked him what value pot he was using. His reply was "What do mean what value ? It's a pot ! I'm reading 0 to 255 on the serial monitor !" Yes, you can use an arduino if you are ignorant and can't read a schematic. Can you be productive ? Probably not. Building electronic kits from diagrams is perfectly understandable for children, for several reasons. Should an adult follow that approach ? Well, that depends. If they are unable to focus on details then yes , probably they should. Would they be more productive and versatile if they knew how to read and draw schematics, probably. At the end of the day, when you make excuses for not learning, you only hinder your progress. Nothing you can say would support the case that it is better to NOT know how to read and draw schematics. So , I am glad that you had fun with your kits, but don't encourage newbies to remain ignorant because you were able to do something 45 years ago without knowing how to read schematics. I was a cook. I did not even know WHAT a resistor or capacitor were when I started. If you named ANY electronic component when I started, I could NOT have told you what it was or did, yet in one year, I not only learned how to read and draw schematics, I built about 300 circuits (some soldered) , including op amp circuits, power supplies with fold-back current limiting, audio amplifiers, digital sequencers and more, all because I learned to read and draw schematics. If you want to help the OP, tell him you think you would have learned faster if you knew how to read schematics. That's what he needs. He needs a reason to do it, not an excuse to avoid it.
Cheers !,
Robert
Schematic Enforcement Agency
raschemmel:
I am a Blues fan as well. I used to see Albert & BB King live at the Philmore in San Fransisco. I only started learning electronics 35 years ago when I was a full time restaurant cook trying to cross-train myself in my off time. I started with RadioShack children's
electronics kits with the spring contacts that allow you to wire hundreds of different circuits (one at a time) without solder. I also used Heathkit Homestudy Electronics courses, but by far, the most useful medium were the 'cookbooks" , which are the electronics version of recipe books , that have an introduction to the theory , then the schematic and some paragraphs that amount to application notes. When I started, I did not know how to read schematics, but I quickly learned. I think that trying to encourage newcomers to electronics to remain ignorant of schematics is detrimental to their advancement. If you were talking about children playing with toys it would make perfect sense, but to encourage adults to "play" with electronics and not worry about "how " a circuit works is not only counter productive , it is just plain stupid. If the individual is Bank VP who wants to build his own security system as a hobby , then I suppose it makes sense. Would you try to teach someone how to overhaul an engine without knowing how to read a mechanical drawing ? Sure, that is totally possible and probably happens every day, but not because they choose to do it that way. If they are not using drawings it is probably because they don't have them. The forum is inundated with a plethora of people who get into the arduino hobby with the attitude that "It's Shake & Bake , anyone can do it !" and the Instructables , though very informative , propagate this attitude with their reputation for not including schematics. Admittedly some do include schematics, but the majority don't. I find this attitude to be idiotic. A schematic is really not that hard to understand. You really only need to learn 20 or 30 symbols to get by. Yesterday some guy posted because he was having trouble with a pot (potentiometer). Since his problem seemed to be hardware related, I naturally asked him what value pot he was using. His reply was "What do mean what value ? It's a pot ! I'm reading 0 to 255 on the serial monitor !" Yes, you can use an arduino if you are ignorant and can't read a schematic. Can you be productive ? Probably not. Building electronic kits from diagrams is perfectly understandable for children, for several reasons. Should an adult follow that approach ? Well, that depends. If they are unable to focus on details then yes , probably they should. Would they be more productive and versatile if they knew how to read and draw schematics, probably. At the end of the day, when you make excuses for not learning, you only hinder your progress. Nothing you can say would support the case that it is better to NOT know how to read and draw schematics. So , I am glad that you had fun with your kits, but don't encourage newbies to remain ignorant because you were able to do something 45 years ago without knowing how to read schematics. I was a cook. I did not even know WHAT a resistor or capacitor were when I started. If you named ANY electronic component when I started, I could NOT have told you what it was or did, yet in one year, I not only learned how to read and draw schematics, I built about 300 circuits (some soldered) , including op amp circuits, power supplies with fold-back current limiting, audio amplifiers, digital sequencers and more, all because I learned to read and draw schematics. If you want to help the OP, tell him you think you would have learned faster if you knew how to read schematics. That's what he needs. He needs a reason to do it, not an excuse to avoid it.
Cheers !,
Robert
Schematic Enforcement Agency
Cheers for the post, I have to say I agree wholy with what you are saying.
In programming I have come across lots of teaching schemes or languages that try and make programming easier for beginners and try and hide things about programming from you. In my experience this is massively counter productive. It is better to learn what the hell you are doing then everything makes sense and is instantly easier. It is frustrating having to help someone who has come into programming through this approach. It is also annoying using a language that does things for you and generally gets in the way.
So i fully agree with what you are saying. I mean the language that is used to program arduino is kinda annoying, I dont know why they didnt use full C, with just an in built arduino library. The language forces you to use global variables and generally write messy code. I dont think it makes it any easier for people in the long run. It means you can hack, but have no idea what you are doing.
If you can hack an example, like you say an instructable. It doesn't mean you can make your own designs. Like I have built lots of circuits from tutorials but still have no idea how to make my own circuit, because I dont understand when and where to use resistors capacitors etc as its never explained.
In short I agree with hacking and theory. But I think pure hacking can only get you so far without theory. And I totally agree, it can hinder your progress. You become good at hacking but not building your own clean projects from scratch.
Hacking is fun, but it gets frustrating without knowing what you are doing.
I think as with anything you need a good mix, some hacking but also a solid grounding in the theory and actually knowing what you are doing and not guessing.
I am a bit of stickler for knowing how an why when and do somehting and not just do it, it works.
In short:
I would say hacking is a great way to learn but you need the theory too. You need to understand what is going on.
Without that understanding you cant build your own projects from scratch and you get into bad habits.
So yeah I basically agree with both you guys.
I think it is a bit of a mistake by arduino to sell electronics and programming as easy and you can do it without any knowledge, as your right it does hinder your progress. It also a frustrating approach for nerds like me who like to do things the proper way.
It may seem like before I said I love, hacking and now im posting I love theory lol. But I genuinely believe you need both. and whilst hacking is fun, the theory accelerates your game.
"The penalty for forgetting OHM's LAW is a PIE in the EIR !
P(power) = I (current x E (voltage)
E (voltage) = I ( current) x R (resistance)
( re- arrange expressions by dividing both sides by one of the variables to obtain expression for another)
ie:
E=I x R
E/R = I/R x R
I = E/R
raschemmel:
I am a Blues fan as well. I used to see Albert & BB King live at the Philmore in San Fransisco. I only started learning electronics 35 years ago when I was a full time restaurant cook trying to cross-train myself in my off time. I started with RadioShack children's
electronics kits with the spring contacts that allow you to wire hundreds of different circuits (one at a time) without solder. I also used Heathkit Homestudy Electronics courses, but by far, the most useful medium were the 'cookbooks" , which are the electronics version of recipe books , that have an introduction to the theory , then the schematic and some paragraphs that amount to application notes. When I started, I did not know how to read schematics, but I quickly learned. I think that trying to encourage newcomers to electronics to remain ignorant of schematics is detrimental to their advancement. If you were talking about children playing with toys it would make perfect sense, but to encourage adults to "play" with electronics and not worry about "how " a circuit works is not only counter productive , it is just plain stupid. If the individual is Bank VP who wants to build his own security system as a hobby , then I suppose it makes sense. Would you try to teach someone how to overhaul an engine without knowing how to read a mechanical drawing ? Sure, that is totally possible and probably happens every day, but not because they choose to do it that way. If they are not using drawings it is probably because they don't have them. The forum is inundated with a plethora of people who get into the arduino hobby with the attitude that "It's Shake & Bake , anyone can do it !" and the Instructables , though very informative , propagate this attitude with their reputation for not including schematics. Admittedly some do include schematics, but the majority don't. I find this attitude to be idiotic. A schematic is really not that hard to understand. You really only need to learn 20 or 30 symbols to get by. Yesterday some guy posted because he was having trouble with a pot (potentiometer). Since his problem seemed to be hardware related, I naturally asked him what value pot he was using. His reply was "What do mean what value ? It's a pot ! I'm reading 0 to 255 on the serial monitor !" Yes, you can use an arduino if you are ignorant and can't read a schematic. Can you be productive ? Probably not. Building electronic kits from diagrams is perfectly understandable for children, for several reasons. Should an adult follow that approach ? Well, that depends. If they are unable to focus on details then yes , probably they should. Would they be more productive and versatile if they knew how to read and draw schematics, probably. At the end of the day, when you make excuses for not learning, you only hinder your progress. Nothing you can say would support the case that it is better to NOT know how to read and draw schematics. So , I am glad that you had fun with your kits, but don't encourage newbies to remain ignorant because you were able to do something 45 years ago without knowing how to read schematics. I was a cook. I did not even know WHAT a resistor or capacitor were when I started. If you named ANY electronic component when I started, I could NOT have told you what it was or did, yet in one year, I not only learned how to read and draw schematics, I built about 300 circuits (some soldered) , including op amp circuits, power supplies with fold-back current limiting, audio amplifiers, digital sequencers and more, all because I learned to read and draw schematics. If you want to help the OP, tell him you think you would have learned faster if you knew how to read schematics. That's what he needs. He needs a reason to do it, not an excuse to avoid it.
Cheers !,
Robert
Schematic Enforcement Agency
I am not denouncing learning theory, but we are subscribing and answering questions on an Arduino forum and not an electronics hobbyist forum.
Arduino is by its very nature a "hacking" platform. It was introduced to bring electronic project building to the masses and has succeeded in doing this very well. We get a lot of Newbie question on here because it is a hacking platform. It does allow you to expand your knowledge of electronics and for that I am in agreement with you that once past the initial "hacking" stage then theory is a must.
Most of the newbie question on here are from people dipping their toes in the water to learn to swim. Demanding that they jump in the deep end will put many off. That would be both a shame an in contradiction to the whole Arduino Ethos.
I dont think we will ever agree on this point but it is making for a good debate.
Cheers Pete.
raschemmel:
"The penalty for forgetting OHM's LAW is a PIE in the EIR !
P(power) = I (current x E (voltage)
E (voltage) = I ( current) x R (resistance)
( re- arrange expressions by dividing both sides by one of the variables to obtain expression for another)
ie:
E=I x R
E/R = I/R x R
I = E/R
Ha ha I like it ....
I learned using the triangle method
V W
I x R I x V
Cheers Pete.
The debate isn"t over. One of the downsides of making " hacking" (I still have trouble accepting that term) is that many Newbies
confuse / abuse hackong in that they become (or are) lazy and won't take the time to research or Google anything and judt post on
the forum asking/demanding code and schematics.
raschemmel:
The debate isn"t over. One of the downsides of making " hacking" (I still have trouble accepting that term) is that many Newbies
confuse / abuse hackong in that they become (or are) lazy and won't take the time to research or Google anything and judt post on
the forum asking/demanding code and schematics.
Yes .. I understand that.. but does it really matter if they are having fun and not planing on becoming rocket scientists.
Telling someone that they cannot do something unless they follow, what for some people can be quite difficult, theory is not a great way to get along with your fellow men (women).
If these newbies frustrate you so much just ignore them and people like me will continue to help them.
Sometimes people just need a little hand holding, they may then go on to do great and awesome things paling our skills into the shadows. I am not protective about my hobbies and I dont demand that a certain bar be reached to participate.
Cheers Pete.