I am a newbie to the Arduino family. I would like to know which board I can use that is smaller and cheaper than the Uno once I develop a project that I would like to make permanent. Preferably the new board should have all the supporting hardware found on the Uno board. Thanks for any help on this.
- design your own
- check Teensy
tonyT40:
I am a newbie to the Arduino family. I would like to know which board I can use that is smaller and cheaper than the Uno once I develop a project that I would like to make permanent. Preferably the new board should have all the supporting hardware found on the Uno board. Thanks for any help on this.
It's called the "Pro Mini".
robtillaart:
- design your own
- check Teensy
???
- Why? Pro Minis are $2.50 each.
- Not Uno compatible.
- to get it as small as possible,
- How is teensy not UNO compatible? do you use shields?
My Teensy3.1's have no issues running any t85, Uno or any other Arduino code unless the code requires pins that aren't present on the teensy.
Most changes required either involve the 3.3 analog ports. (the digital ports are 5v tolerant) or adding port buffers to increase the drive current...
There are some other differences but those are more likely to deal with things like DMA functions or the two really neat and fast I2C ports that can operate @ 2+ MHz
Some time basic I wrote (borrowed) a tiny 85 sketch that makes a yellow led... flicker like a candle in a small breeze.
I changed the led pin to a PWM port and I have a pretty little candle... with an ldr for daylight shutdowm sensing..
Having 256 k of flash, 64k of sram and 2k of Eeprom, full USB a 12 bit dac as well as using the large Arduino code base both .023 and 1.0+ versions is nice too.
That the board can be overclocked to 96 + MHz from a 72 MHz default is nice also. The board will work to from 4, 8, 14, 24, 48 and 72 MHz where 96 MHz is a menu selectable over clock option... the board can go to 186 MHz with some small code changes, Too.
So the Teensy 3.1 @ $19.80 from PJRC or $17.00 from OSH Part is a nice fast and inexpensive board that is easy or better to use than A 16 MHz Pro mini.
I don't recommend starting out with a teensy unless your basic code skills are good however it's a good bridge between a Mega 2560 and a Due.. and at the price, adding the cost of an Arduino compatible Uno style shield board... places It just below the cost of a Mega R3. and some of the add-on boards support the use of the nRF24XX. Two 8 pin connectors, one for HW support and the other for bitbanged SPI... available from Tindie
It's a combination That's hard to beat...
One more thing is that there is a good forum for support of your your issues... Too.
Doc
I always find the Nano is a great/smaller alternative to the Uno.
Ian.
I am a big fan of the Attiny13, there are cores on here for it.
Its only got 1k flash and 64 bytes of ram
£0.35 each in small qty's
Its a LOT of fun trying to pack as much in to 1k/64b as possible, you really start to look at simplification disciplines
I have just finished writing a 250kbps n/8/2 serial receiver to drive ws2812 LED's - fits perfectly in 1k and runs like a dream at 9.6mhz
tonyT40:
the new board should have all the supporting hardware found on the Uno board.
fungus promini is the only one that comes even close to fitting the bill here. it never ceases to amaze me how far off base some of the suggestions get on these forums. i often wonder if these guys live on the same planet. or the same universe even.
All the supporting hardware including the 5V and 3.3V regulators?
If just 5V, or just 3.3V, then a promini with added FTDI Basic or clone equivalent supplying can do USB and the 20 IO with limited current for 5V and 3.3V for the processor and some external components.
im convinced built-in USB serves virtually no purpose at all for "permanent" stand alone stage. if noobs dont know how to use a $1 ebay serial adapter or arduinoisp then better stay safe and sound in uno-land.
I agree with USB, I usually just have an FTDI header for connecting a USB/Serial adapter for debug purposes, then unplug it when done downloading/debugging & ready to go embedded.
You can see that here on the '1284P derivative board that I offer with a FTDI Basic clone from tinyosshop.com
Cross Roads Electronics
oh yeah... i inherited an original bobduino some time back but that is much closer to "my kinda" board. sort of a promini-plus-plus... plus.
tonyT40:
I am a newbie to the Arduino family. I would like to know which board I can use that is smaller and cheaper than the Uno once I develop a project that I would like to make permanent. **Preferably the new board should have all the supporting hardware found on the Uno board. ** Thanks for any help on this.
Tony:
Lots of good suggestions ahead of my entry, but your question really needs to be cast to your final design before you can get a true answer to your needs. Consider:
- If your design uses both 5V and a small current 3.3V need, then the 3.3V regulator is required. Most designs will not use the Arduino 3.3V because it is too current limited.
- If you do not need the ability to reprogram the device, then onboard serial adapter (32U2 or FTDI) is probably not required and just eats up current when not being utilized. However, some designs do need to keep the simplicity of end-user USB update via notebook in place to support remote support for the system.
- A 32U4 design like the Pro-mini may be a better overall approach as the USB-serial interface is intrinsic to the uC.
Bottom line here is you need to do some serious thinking about how you intend on supporting your final, end-user product. The end game should drive the hardware requirements as much as the software and interfacing requirements. Unless your production quantities are large enough to support your designing a board, producing it, stuffing it, and baking it you are going to be hard-pressed to reach a unit cost (if you include your/family/friend labor) of the Chinese clone boards. You can always monitor your initial sales and plan a cut-over to your own production board should your revenue stream justify such a move.
Example of Chinese units I have used with success (not a recommendation for product purchase or vendor.)
Pro-Micro: 10pcs Leonardo Pro Micro Atmega32u4 Board Arduino IDE Bootloader Than Pro Mini for sale online | eBay
Pro-Mini: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311065690969
Nano: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201156622276 (USB == CH340)
Nano: Iduino Nano V3.0 Atmega328 Board 5v/16mhz FTDI Chip Ft232rl for Arduino for sale online | eBay (USB == FTDI)
One of the biggest issue I see with the less experienced Arduino users is the problems associated with the inexpensive Chinese Arduino (and the real Italian units, too) that are 5V @16MHz when trying to interface with 3.3V I/O. Most makers simply refuse to do the job right and end up either getting frustrated or cooking a GLCD or sensor or even the Arduino. You can simply avoid such issues IF your project does not require the full bandwidth of 16MHz... that is, consider 3.3V Arduino @8MHz as an option. Examples:
If you do not understand what I am discussing about voltage-level translation, then read:
https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-the-logic-level-converter/hardware-overview
One final recommendation: develop on what you intend on deploying! If you 'think' you can get away with a clone xyz board in the final design to the customer, then write your software and do your bench design based upon the xyz clone and NOT another board. You will save hair by using this philosophy.
Good luck,
Ray
See my toys: http://www.hackster.io/rayburne/
I'd stick with the good ol' Pro Mini. The Inland brand FTDI works just fine to program it. As far as the Tiny-duino, Teensy, etc. these get dicey. You'll have to download add-on files to program them like you do the RFduino. And that built-in USB (like the Leonardo) is nothing but a source of aggravation and not worth it. Companies are adopting that to save a dime by editing out a little chip.
pentius:
As far as the ... Teensy, etc. these get dicey.
Bullshit. I have extensively used half-a-dozen Teensys and I have never had a problem.
You'll have to download add-on files to program them like you do the RFduino.
You believe it's a problem to download Teensyduino, a single installation program, run it, and click a few buttons? Wow. You are unbelievably lazy. I wonder how you managed to get the Arduino IDE installed.
And that built-in USB (like the Leonardo) is nothing but a source of aggravation and not worth it.
I have no idea if the built-in USB on the Leonardo is a an aggravation but it is not with the Teensy boards.
Companies are adopting that to save a dime by editing out a little chip.
That is one possibility. The other is that it's an effective solution for some projects.
Nobody mentioned the Micro, my current go-to. I wonder why.
This is an important, relevant question. Unfortunately, it's not an easy, one answer question. The board you pick really depends on the kind of project you're building.
I list the boards I've used below, along with an example of a project I used them for.
First off - Even though you can buy most of these cheap on ebay, I would order your first one from a local, reputable site (sparkfun, adafruit, PJRC) instead. A lot of the eBay boards take a long time to arrive, and have a noticeable failure rate. This can make building and debugging a real pain (is it my problem or is the board bad?). Also, if you need help, you'll get much better support from the locals. When you're more experienced, you can order cheap boards off eBay in bulk.
Pro Mini
This board is meant for a project that does not need to be constantly connected to a PC (USB). This is my most used project Arduino. Not having a FTDI onboard saves money, space and power. You have to buy a separate serial cable or board for programming or debug, but it starts to save after a few projects.
Example: My first Sous Vide controller was a scratch built, through-hole, Arduino. My next one used a Pro Mini. Muuuuch easier! It doesn't stay hooked up to a PC all the time, but I can update the firmware, or datalog the temperature profile of a cook.
Nano
If your project will remain connected to a PC through the USB port as a serial device, then a Nano can work for you.
Example: Temp and Humidity Datalogger connected to an office PC. Any project that I just want a simple terminal interface to.
Teensy
If your project uses USB other than the default serial USB of an Arduino, I like using the Teensy.
You could use the Micro or Micro Pro, but I personally like the way Teensyduino is implemented.
You even get a choice of Teensy : 2.0 for Arduino compatibility - 3.1 for higher speed and I/O count (but still fairly Arduino compatible).
Example: Game controller (Joystick). Accessible keyboard & mouse controller. Prank keyboard.
Build your own
Unless you have a weird physical layout, or a specific need, it doesn't really pay to make your own Arduino for a project. With some of these boards as low as 3-7 bucks, most people can't buy the bare parts that cheaply. Also, if you mount the board on headers, you can swap it out quickly if one fails.
That being said, EVERYONE should build an Arduino from scratch at least once. You learn so much doing this. I just don't make it into the whole project anymore.
Others
There's just far too many of these different smaller boards (Trinket, TinyDuino, Digispark, etc, etc) to discuss them here.
tonyT40:
I am a newbie to the Arduino family. I would like to know which board I can use that is smaller and cheaper than the Uno once I develop a project that I would like to make permanent. Preferably the new board should have all the supporting hardware found on the Uno board. Thanks for any help on this.
so the requirement is
-smaller
-cheaper
-UNO
-all the supporting hardware found on the UNO
the mini/micro/pro-mini do not have all the hardware. you have to use a separate way to program.
As was noted you can buy one board and program all the chips. Although that does not meet the specs, it is a possible option.
The NANO has on-board USB ,. so that comes pretty close. very limited 3.3v out (40mA?)
when I laid out the board to plug into my motherboard, I started with the UNO pin-out. figure it could be a shield.
then tried to drop in the pro-mini, most of the pins do not even come close to lining up. seems that design is plug in for the BasicStamp.
The NANO is very close to the same pin-out, so all but one trace was straight out to the Uno pins.
tonyT40 you have given us an ambiguous and potentially impossible
set of requirements.
Until you further qualify what:
tonyT40:
Preferably the new board should have all the supporting hardware found on the Uno board.
means, there is no way to make any sort of recommendations.
What do you really need in the board?
(again, think what you truly need vs want)
Things that make substantial difference:
- processor
- shield compatibility
- 3v/5v
--- bill